Bazarova / Deputat teams up for New Partnership (to be coached by Vasiliev) | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Bazarova / Deputat teams up for New Partnership (to be coached by Vasiliev)

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
That's something I just don't get it. I no Mozer knows better than I do, and she knows Vera better than I/us but I just don't understand why would she choose him and not Vera? She is much better than him, even with her little sbs jump.
Is it maybe because it's easier to find a girl rather than a man as partner?

On Vera's v/k page someone appearing/claiming to be Vera (but who I am NOT 100% sure is) and answering questions from her fans said that she did not remember any real conflict with Mozer, but that Mozer carefully monitored her weight and at hte beginning of the season she put on 2-3 kg and muscles appeared because Mozer told her to. She also said she is grateful to Mozer for this though, so who knows.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
On Vera's v/k page someone appearing/claiming to be Vera (but who I am NOT 100% sure is) and answering questions from her fans said that she did not remember any real conflict with Mozer, but that Mozer carefully monitored her weight and at hte beginning of the season she put on 2-3 kg and muscles appeared because Mozer told her to. She also said she is grateful to Mozer for this though, so who knows.

No I was not implying that she had a bad relationship with Mozer. I just don't get Mozer's choice.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
That's all fair but I don't think it necessarily means e's in a worse position- even with Vera, he was going to be at best Mozer's #3 team, maybe her #4.

Zabijako does not appear to have a triple twist, but the height difference between she and her old partner was only 5.5 inches, so that may be why. The lack of height difference may have made it very hard for them.

I agree she does not look as slight as Vera, and she is one inch taller. That said, she also looks slightly more muscular, so she may be able to offer Larinov more help in some of the elements due to added strength than Vera could.

At heart though, I don't think we disagree- we are basically arguing over technicalities.

I think he is in worse position if he and Vera stayed at Mozer, because they wouldn't have to be relearning thee majority of their elements, so being 3rd (or even 4th) would still not need as much time and attention from their coach as he needs when he is starting with someone new from zero. And he is definitely at worse position with his new partner than Vera is with her new partner.

As you said, Zabijako is tiny bit taller and more muscled - the problem is that muscles are heavy. Vera is thinner and not as muscular. I don't know how easy is it to adjust to lifting a different weight, but if there is some let's say 5 kilos difference between Vera and Zabijako, lifting it above your head must feel much heavier! (and not sure whether her muscles will help with the twist, or, on the contrary, having heavier body will make it slightly harder, especially if she has never done triple twists). Well, we will see. They have a year. Maybe having the year without being able to compete internationally will turn lucky for them.
 

anyanka

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
As you said, Zabijako is tiny bit taller and more muscled - the problem is that muscles are heavy. Vera is thinner and not as muscular. I don't know how easy is it to adjust to lifting a different weight, but if there is some let's say 5 kilos difference between Vera and Zabijako, lifting it above your head must feel much heavier! (and not sure whether her muscles will help with the twist, or, on the contrary, having heavier body will make it slightly harder, especially if she has never done triple twists). Well, we will see. They have a year. Maybe having the year without being able to compete internationally will turn lucky for them.

I do remember though that when Belbin / Agosto went to Linichuk in 2008, her first instruction was for Tanith to gain 10 pounds of muscle. It made the lifts easier. So even if certain elements get harder, the female partner gaining muscle may mean she can provide better support without relying on the male in certain elements. Just a theory.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
I do remember though that when Belbin / Agosto went to Linichuk in 2008, her first instruction was for Tanith to gain 10 pounds of muscle. It made the lifts easier. So even if certain elements get harder, the female partner gaining muscle may mean she can provide better support without relying on the male in certain elements. Just a theory.

But they didn't do over head lifts, the dance lifts don't have to last as long, and they didn't do twists. I don't think dance is comparable to pairs in this regard.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
But they didn't do over head lifts, the dance lifts don't have to last as long, and they didn't do twists. I don't think dance is comparable to pairs in this regard.

I do think the girl having some muscle does help the man in getting up and down from the overhead lifts, as well as in most (but perhaps not all) overhead lift positions. Any man would rather lift a 110 pound woman with the muscle to help him (even, I think, overhead) than a 100 pound woman who is essentially a sack of potatoes.

Megan Duhamel comes to mind. She is 48 kg. You are not going to convince me that any partner of hers would rather she weighed less but lost all of her muscle. By comparison Bazarova is 46 kg despite being 5 inches taller than Duhamel. That difference is muscle. You are not going to convince me that any man, given the choice, would not rather lift Duhamel even if you made their heights identical.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
I do think the girl having some muscle does help the man in getting up and down from the overhead lifts, as well as in most (but perhaps not all) overhead lift positions. Any man would rather lift a 110 pound woman with the muscle to help him (even, I think, overhead) than a 100 pound woman who is essentially a sack of potatoes.

Megan Duhamel comes to mind. She is 48 kg. You are not going to convince me that any partner of hers would rather she weighed less but lost all of her muscle. By comparison Bazarova is 46 kg despite being 5 inches taller than Duhamel. That difference is muscle. You are not going to convince me that any man, given the choice, would not rather lift Duhamel even if you made their heights identical.

I don't know, I am not a pair male and I am not trying to convince you anything. Unless you are the one who does the lifting, you never know. I would probably go for the least heavy lady, but how much a few kilos make a difference I really don't know. When you are lifting, it is also about technique. So maybe it is not as important whether she has more or less muscles and weighs a few kilos more or less, but whether they both managed to lifting technique correctly or whether they are just muscling it through.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Vasilisa Davankova will skate with Maxim Bobrov:
http://forum.fsonline.ru/index.php?/topic/831-вера-базарова-андрей-депутат/page__st__360

whose previous partner Oksana Nagalaty is serving a year ban for doping
he is amongst the tallest junior pair skater from Russia along with Morozov and Zakroev
he is younger than Deputat so this will be good they can stay in juniors

bad news, Bobrov is not on par with Davankova and has weaker skating skills

I don't think there is any junior eligible male who is on par with Davankova's skating skills, so at least Bobrov ticks three boxes - he is tall enough for her, he was good enough to be sent to compete internationally at JGP events and he is young enough that they can spend another 2-3 seasons at juniors. Within those 2-3 years he will have plenty of time to catch up. Actually, this pairing will sort out Russian problem- if the rules don't change back, all previous Russian successful junior pairs are due to move to seniors because Zakroev, Moroskin, Morozov, Bich and Souza-Kordyeru aged out from juniors, so there was no Russian junior pair that could potentially medal.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I don't think there is any junior eligible male who is on par with Davankova's skating skills, so at least Bobrov ticks three boxes - he is tall enough for her, he was good enough to be sent to compete internationally at JGP events and he is young enough that they can spend another 2-3 seasons at juniors. Within those 2-3 years he will have plenty of time to catch up. Actually, this pairing will sort out Russian problem- if the rules don't change back, all previous Russian successful junior pairs are due to move to seniors because Zakroev, Moroskin, Morozov, Bich and Souza-Kordyeru aged out from juniors, so there was no Russian junior pair that could potentially medal.

Davankova was a complete package except that nature, unfortunately watching her modelesque sister's height, she will continue to grow
skating skills, maybe that can be improve in one or two more seasons
but watching Bobrov he has a lot of catching up to do, he is weaker than Davankova in all aspects except height
 

elif

Medalist
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
I do think the girl having some muscle does help the man in getting up and down from the overhead lifts, as well as in most (but perhaps not all) overhead lift positions. Any man would rather lift a 110 pound woman with the muscle to help him (even, I think, overhead) than a 100 pound woman who is essentially a sack of potatoes.

Megan Duhamel comes to mind. She is 48 kg. You are not going to convince me that any partner of hers would rather she weighed less but lost all of her muscle. By comparison Bazarova is 46 kg despite being 5 inches taller than Duhamel. That difference is muscle. You are not going to convince me that any man, given the choice, would not rather lift Duhamel even if you made their heights identical.

Maybe you are right but Duhamel/Radford's lifts not that good (maybe worst in top teams) despite their height advantage.

ISU bio says Bobrov is 187 cm and 17 years of age.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Maybe you are right but Duhamel/Radford's lifts not that good (maybe worst in top teams) despite their height advantage.

ISU bio says Bobrov is 187 cm and 17 years of age.

I have always thought this was because Radford is one of if not the weakest top level male lifter out there. Sometimes it looks like she herself is making the lift happen. He has some kind of recurring shoulder injury I think.

RE: Bobrov, yes, he is 187 cm which is excellent. Additionally, at 17 years of age, it's VERY possible he too will grow taller, which is really great in the event her height does continue to increase as well.

I agree he's not currently at Davankova's level, but he has potential to grow IMO- he is not a train wreck. As others have noted they can spend a few years in juniors and see how it goes, and honestly, there is almost literally NO ONE who is tall enough for her that is available. Frankly, I think to some degree she is lucky to have found a partner at all. It IS a real pity, because she really IS that good, but height is what it is.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
I saw a picture of Radford beside Moscovitch recently, and they were both shirtless. I don't have the link but Radford looked so much less muscular than Moscovitch, pretty lanky.. TBH I think he's a weak lifter. I don't remember what his lifts were like with Rachel Kirkland but IIRC, she was very small when they were together.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
RE: Bobrov, yes, he is 187 cm which is excellent. Additionally, at 17 years of age, it's VERY possible he too will grow taller, which is really great in the event her height does continue to increase as well.

I agree he's not currently at Davankova's level, but he has potential to grow IMO- he is not a train wreck. As others have noted they can spend a few years in juniors and see how it goes, and honestly, there is almost literally NO ONE who is tall enough for her that is available. Frankly, I think to some degree she is lucky to have found a partner at all. It IS a real pity, because she really IS that good, but height is what it is.

Enbert is another pair male partner that could potentially be used for Davankova. He is also very tall (189 cm). Gerboldt-Enbert has not been very successful the last few season so there would be another possibility, but I would choose Bobrov because of his age. Enbert is already 24 and by the time the new pair would gel, he would be getting too close to his retirement age. Besides, I think it is Dvankova's advantage to stay a few more years at junior level. There will be too many senior pairs in Russia and some of them won't have the opportunities to do GP events and Europeans/Worlds, whereas Davankova will be able to do juniors with Bobrov and get some points towards world Ranking, which would make their transition to seniors much easier.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Enbert is already 24 and by the time the new pair would gel, he would be getting too close to his retirement age.

Enbert at 24 is already too old for Davankova just turning 16
why waste Davankova on skating with a partner good for 3 or 4 seasons together only
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Enbert at 24 is already too old for Davankova just turning 16
why waste Davankova on skating with a partner good for 3 or 4 seasons together only

I know, that's why if you look at my whole post, I said that I would rather choose Bobrov for her. But if there was no one else that is tall enough, Enbert would have to do.
 
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