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the thread is about refined skaters right ?
not the most competitive and consistent, if its the latter, then Yuna wins
What is refined skating?
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the thread is about refined skaters right ?
not the most competitive and consistent, if its the latter, then Yuna wins
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- Jan 26, 2013
Yuna ?
sure she was a steely competitor with good skating skills but her stroking in edges isnt ideal, compare to Carolina's graceful fast skating,
Yuna also has flexed feet and her spins were not fast and great, Carolina has the best exit free leg position on jumps, that 3 loop to die for that Yuna only had for a limited time.
Carolina emotes as a real actress on the ice as compared to skating with a frowned eyebrow
so cough* Yuna is not refined
I would say Carolina maybe even Kwan, she had the best spirals and even with her tiny jumps they were effortless maybe except the flutz
TALK ABOUT THE OBSESSION WITH YUNA KIM
woooo
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Although refinement and art are real, I'm afraid that the biggest use of the terms "refined" and "artistic" are by fans and commentators who use the terms about skaters who fall a lot or make other mental errors a lot, or who are short on technical content, or who just have bad competition nerves so that they can put them on a PCS or Second Mark pedestal where their deficiencies will not hurt them so much.
This is why everyone's list of what & who is refined and artistic varies-they mean I like this skater no matter how badly they perform, IMO.
Now John Curry, that is refined and artistic skating
but that's my opinion.
This is why everyone's list of what & who is refined and artistic varies-they mean I like this skater no matter how badly they perform, IMO.
Now John Curry, that is refined and artistic skating
but that's my opinion.
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- Dec 22, 2012
Although refinement and art are real, I'm afraid that the biggest use of the terms "refined" and "artistic" are by fans and commentators who use the terms about skaters who fall a lot or make other mental errors a lot, or who are short on technical content, or who just have bad competition nerves so that they can put them on a PCS or Second Mark pedestal where their deficiencies will not hurt them so much.
This is why everyone's list of what & who is refined and artistic varies-they mean I like this skater no matter how badly they perform, IMO.
Now John Curry, that is refined and artistic skating
So well said. I remember before reading forums like this, I used to think Sasha Cohen (whom I love) had the best spirals, step sequence and artistry, because I was so influenced by the comments of Dick and Sandra. Now I do think Sasha is amazing but I realized that not everyone agrees with that.
๋John Curry is beyond refine for me, no proper word to describe him yet!:
I think you've got it! We'll have to go beyond the dictionary for Curry.
To this day, though I have had many disappointments in the results of various Olympics, the fact that Curry won an OGM makes up for almost every other favorite skater who didn't.
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But Gracie thinks Yuna is a refined skater and very much looks up to her. She posted a photo with her with #with the queen..
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This thread can easily be discussed without bringing our favorites into it and pitting them against each other. It's not a who is the most refined thread! I'd say a true refined skater would be the one who didnt start off winning and corrected their weaknesses and learned to raise their competitive efforts. That's a refined skater to me.
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I think the refinement, which we all agree should come with age and experience, should be consistent. I mean, all top skaters reach refinement at some point of their career. I would say some are refined in some aspect, in particular programs with choreography that suit them well. But whether or not they could maintain that refinement in every competition and perform it above average is another story.
I would say Caro still looked very fluid on the ice at worlds this season despite her fall and all the mistakes. She is the only one at the moment who can maintain such gracefulness with a day off.
One exceptional skater who seemed to gain refinement very early was Michelle. While she didn't have it in her first year or two as a senior (largely because she was 12 and 13 at the time), she showed refinement in the sense of completeness and flow during that season where she won her first Worlds with her Salome program. That was an artistic achievement as well as a technical one, and it was an astonishing piece of work for someone so young. She kept that magical quality through her career, though in the last years she lost some strength due to her injury. Another example of early refinement was Gordeyeva. But I agree that largely, this trait develops over time.
Full disclosure: I suppose it could be said that I am biased because I love these two skaters so much, but it's really the other way around: I love these skaters so much because I value the trait of refinement (as I define it, anyway), and I continued to love them because they retained this trait.
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Essentially, think of Adelina Sotnikova and then imagine a skater that is the opposite of that.
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Spot on!
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LOL
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Plushenko's hands are beautiful. He has many ballet lessons and one of his hobbies is the ballet. Look at these montages..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQoFaIyjes4 Plushenko Swan lake and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hJpMS2tYpI Evgei PlushenkoMeditation (Thais) no jumps in the video beautiful
Katia is my favourite skater. One thing that I found amazing is that she is so refined and beautiful on the ice that you can put any skater next to her and she would make them look beautiful.
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Refinement can be seen easily in movements, from its very set up, the process, the drop and finish of the movements. Are they done with assurance, finesse, in the quality and the purity in the delivery. Do they convey meaning of intention with its subtle speed changes. Do they feel rough and clumsy? Or do the movements feels natural, effortless, does it contain variance in subtlety and mark of distinction, personal characteristics that separate the skater/dancer from the pack. Refinement certainly involves musicality, it is the symbiosis where magic happen, reaction, the pull and the drag, the linger, the command, the giving, the dictation that distinct the performer with an opinioned performance which I'd also lump within the 'refined' performance aspect apart from form.
Refinement also comes with experience, because it is through experience, movements can be processed, learnt, reflected, matured, self actualized and refined to the point one establish delicate polish finish to each movement and change reacting to every moment.
Ballet foundation helps, because it emphasize repetition and strict solid foundation. But actually with it comes at a price of overly strict confined movements, it then no longer be truly free and adaptable to other type of music, and thought process. Anything involve physical movements I'd argue should be ultimately be free and versatile.
Naturally this bring down to the veterans who has higher chance of refinement, but this is not guaranteed as I have seen many talents in the past who has a natural instinct about it which makes them fascinating to watch, although like anything, without the proper development, they can fall behind others in the refinement race against time.
Refinement also comes with experience, because it is through experience, movements can be processed, learnt, reflected, matured, self actualized and refined to the point one establish delicate polish finish to each movement and change reacting to every moment.
Ballet foundation helps, because it emphasize repetition and strict solid foundation. But actually with it comes at a price of overly strict confined movements, it then no longer be truly free and adaptable to other type of music, and thought process. Anything involve physical movements I'd argue should be ultimately be free and versatile.
Naturally this bring down to the veterans who has higher chance of refinement, but this is not guaranteed as I have seen many talents in the past who has a natural instinct about it which makes them fascinating to watch, although like anything, without the proper development, they can fall behind others in the refinement race against time.
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Oh, that's harsh. She may not be the most appealing skater but there's a lot worse. Actually Adelina has excellent extension and toe point which doesn't just happen and indicates attention to detail. I think she honestly believes herself to be artistic judging from the stuff she tries to pull it off. Her recent Osaka Gala performance was, ummm . . . different.
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I would not say that "refined" = "ballet".
I think Fred Astaire was refined, but he definitely wasn't balletic.
And there are skaters in the Fred Astaire style who may or may not be refined, skaters for whom the placement of every finger and eyelash is planned, and a purposeful work of art, but the art they are pursuing is not the art of ballet.
Not all art is "classical". Not all classical style stuff is art, either.
In fact, I often prefer the work of non-classical skaters. There is a real, creative, freshness that they show that is much harder to show with balletic stuff, exactly because ballet is well known and well defined.
Not all non-classical stuff is art, either. Junk comes in all varieties.
I think Fred Astaire was refined, but he definitely wasn't balletic.
And there are skaters in the Fred Astaire style who may or may not be refined, skaters for whom the placement of every finger and eyelash is planned, and a purposeful work of art, but the art they are pursuing is not the art of ballet.
Not all art is "classical". Not all classical style stuff is art, either.
In fact, I often prefer the work of non-classical skaters. There is a real, creative, freshness that they show that is much harder to show with balletic stuff, exactly because ballet is well known and well defined.
Not all non-classical stuff is art, either. Junk comes in all varieties.
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Except I think Katarina had problems with toe point
or lack of. But no one is perfect. I think Kerrigan, Trenary, Kadavy, Butyrskaya, Bobek, Arakawa, Cohen. Kim,, Kostner, Kwan are all refined or finished or polished skaters regardless of their jumps. THey skate or skated like well turned out ladies.
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ITA that "refined" doesn't necessarily equate to ballet. Also agree re: non-classical skaters; I love both kinds for different reasons.
Funny about Astaire, though. Personally, I think of his brand of refinement as very balletic, possibly because of the airy quality he always managed to project -- or maybe that's just me responding to the top hat & tails!
OTOH there's Gene Kelly, who was a maniac for detail. Not balletic but definitely refined IMO and altogether wonderful.
And yes, junk definitely comes in all kinds of forms and varieties!
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