Plushenko:" Kovtun is a good average skater " | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Plushenko:" Kovtun is a good average skater "

qwertyskates

Medalist
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
What about euros - the deciding round and the most important- kovtun inferior to voronov and menshov??

Kovtun is weirdly inconsistent, when he is in bad shape, he is very very bad, but when he hits a good day, he is really, really good, the only other skater (Kevin R.) with the possibility of 4-5 quads. On his good day, he easily beats Voronov and Menshov, both good, but not spectacular. Kovtun is a headcase, alas.

As we've seen, Plushenko was not right at all for Sochi, I would have preferred Kovtun to take the stage and let the chips fall. True, Voronov might have been a safer bet, but Kovtun could have added an interesting challenge into the mix.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
The pressure of being sent to Worlds alone at 17 is a lot to ask. He's older now and finished 4th.

Gachinski was sent alone to Worlds at 17. He came back with a medal.

Gachinski also went to Euros at 18 and came back with a silver that perhaps should have been gold.

If Plushenko didn't hog Kovtun's spot (Kovtun won Nationals after all)

If Kovtun didn't have such a disaster performance at Worlds 2013, Russia might have had more the one spot and they could have both gone!
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Plush apologist :rolleye:

You defend Plush at many threads recently. What is this blind loyalty?

Plush could have just said "I look forward to Kovtun's skating in the future" or something neutral. Anything slightly less neutral and more slanted as an opinion which can be interpreted negatively is bad press. His wife already said that Kovtun should medal and now Plush is saying that Kovtun isn't an interesting skater. It doesn't matter whether it's true or not. It matters that Plush and his wife act there's no such thing as bad PR as long as they're in the limelight. It's really not necessary to say anything at all. The Russian Duma already slammed Plush. IMO that's the time to fade into the background at least for a while, lest more people are offended.

What did Kovtun do anyway? Nothing at all. He is a victim in all of this and he is still getting constant flack from the Plushes.
Oh no, you have accused Karne of defending Plush! What a dreadful accusation to live with! :rolleye: What if Plushenko doesn't look forward to seeing Kovtun's skating in the future? If I've learned something from reading translations of Russian interviews, it's that skaters and coaches tend to be honest and forthcoming with their opinions, whether they are negative or positive. Kovtun hasn't been victimized by anyone, and he's gotten plenty of opportunities and support - more than he'd earned, in some cases.

The entire Russian Duma slammed Plushenko? Are they all knowledgeable about the specifics of the situation? And is this the same Duma that has overwhelmingly passed some rather unfortunate decisions and legislation in recent times?

I'd rather pay attention to the so-called Plush apologists.

If Plushenko didn't hog Kovtun's spot (Kovtun won Nationals after all), Kovtun *might* have medaled at Sochi if he had skated his CoC performance, seeing how Hanyu and Chan were really subpar on that evening.:disapp: I liked and respected Plush but this coming from him is too rich after Sochi!
Plushenko was chosen for the Olympics based on his federation's criteria, whatever those are; he skated quite well in the team event, and more than earned his medal. Russia does not rely solely on Nationals in determining international assignments, and Kovtun has been given multiple chances to prove himself internationally at both Euros and Worlds. So far he hasn't really done so.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Plushenko knew even before the team event that he couldn't go in the individual event. No way was that old man with a bad back going to be able to skate 4 times in one week. He was already doubling jumps in the LP in the team event. Why doesn't this glory hog step aside and let this kid skate without him sounding off about what's wrong with Kovtun? Plush didn't even have the guts to face Kovtun again at Europeans instead he had a "test skate". :rolleye:
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
oh please, Kovtun placed 5th Euros :rolleye:, Kovtun has bene given plenty of opportunities
and had he been send to Sochi, he would have bombed and would have cost also the Team gold for Russia

eta: posted by volk again the Plushenko hater
 

jennyanydots

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Oh come on. If Plushy didn't say these things the world would be a lot less interesting. And he's right. Kovtun is overhyped. The only thing that sets him apart right now is the number of quads he attempts. However his jump technique is quite ugly, he's inconsistent, the rest of his skating is mediocre and he doesn't have charisma.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
I was waiting for you volk. This article was published some days ago. I came here and read the thread's titles every days. And this!!!:biggrin: You're not disappointing me, volk. Do you get salary for it? ;) Plushy was asked and he answered he always says what he is thinking.

And what had to say? Kovtun is an incredible talented, unique skater with charisma and beautiful jumps and he has a very special artistry ...He showed amazing skating in ECH and WCH, he will be the next Olympic champion... or what??

Plushenko was awarded by the governor of St. Petersburg on 09.04. 2014.

Почетный знак "За заслуги перед Санкт-Петербургом" / Sign of Honor "For the Merits to St.Petersburg" He gave that interview and this is the original and the whole: http://www.fontanka.ru/2014/04/09/122/ the sports.ru quoted it.
google translating:
Also titled Petersburg skater shared his opinion about the immediate reserve in his sport .
"Whom do I see as his successor ? There are classy, ​​promising Japanese figure skating. First of all, I'm talking about Yuzuru Hanyu . He is only 19 years old, and he has ambitious programs , super-technique, charisma . He is of course , the future of figure skating. As for the Russian skaters , I want to congratulate the successful performance at the European Championships and Kostya Menshov, Sergei Voronov. They showed pure skating . Everyone is screaming about a skater , I think everybody understands , I'm talking about (we are talking about Maxim Kovtun . - Comm . Aut.) . Frankly, I do not see any super-technique . Yes, it is a good average athlete . Let's see what he will show in the future. I want to say that we have a young skaters of Alexei Mishin , and in the regions. Here there are prospects. But make predictions early this sport, health , and psychology. Young athletes need a lot of exercise to achieve results, " - said Plushenko.

And why didn't you put this article? http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/159172999.html

Kovtun: (google translating)

"I have been in the role of the commentator - commented the Russian championship. As for my future career, including the media, all this is only after I finish my career sports.

And it will happen only after I become an Olympic champion, as I believe that is the door to a great future "- quoted Kovtun« Pro City. "
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Oh come on. If Plushy didn't say these things the world would be a lot less interesting. And he's right. Kovtun is overhyped. The only thing that sets him apart right now is the number of quads he attempts. However his jump technique is quite ugly, he's inconsistent, the rest of his skating is mediocre and he doesn't have charisma.
You are even harsher to Kovtun than Plushy could ever be. :biggrin:
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
I was betting with myself when Volk will open a thread about this. I expected sooner, to be honest. The interview is already two days out :laugh: .

Now, let's see when CSG will come here to say also his unbiased opinion about Plushenko, what he is allowed to say and what not :laugh:.

And now, if Kovtun woudn't have been competed for that dammed oly place with Plushenko and if anyone of you would have oppened a thread about how average Kovtun is, i think that half of this forum would have agreed. At the moment he IS a good average skater. Did he have something special? Is his technik worth to gush about? Is he one of the men everybody is talking with admiration as the next comer? Is anyone expecting him to battle for silver and gold? I saw more posts about how great Nam Nguyen is than about Kovtun. I am more thrilled about Pitkeev, while he has more to develop than Kovtun... Pitkeev has more spark, more "it", better good basics.

You are right. For me Pitkeev is more interesting and beautiful as Kovtun. And Petrov also has a very good chance to become a very good skater.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Plush apologist :rolleye:

You defend Plush at many threads recently. What is this blind loyalty?

Plush could have just said "I look forward to Kovtun's skating in the future" or something neutral. Anything slightly less neutral and more slanted as an opinion which can be interpreted negatively is bad press. His wife already said that Kovtun should medal and now Plush is saying that Kovtun isn't an interesting skater. It doesn't matter whether it's true or not. It matters that Plush and his wife act there's no such thing as bad PR as long as they're in the limelight. It's really not necessary to say anything at all. The Russian Duma already slammed Plush. IMO that's the time to fade into the background at least for a while, lest more people are offended.

What did Kovtun do anyway? Nothing at all. He is a victim in all of this and he is still getting constant flack from the Plushes.

You are wrong. The whole Russian Duma didn't slammed Plushenko. Only one politician, Zhirinovsky. He is an ultranationalist politician, who hates the jewish and the gays. Do you undertstand with him?????? He attacked Plushy after his first surgery because he was operated in Israel. Zhirinovsky thinks Plushy would have to do the operation in Russia. And that is good if you know, Zhirinovsky is the best friend of Yana Rudkovskya's ( Plushy's wife) first husband Viktor Baturin. They divorced in 2008. Baturin is a Russian billionaire and he is in prison right now because of tax fraud....i don't know where you read your informations but you need to be more exact and informed ;)
Valuev and Rodnina who are in Duma also criticised Plushy immediately after his withdrawal. Valuev is Plushy's friend and he was in Plushy's wedding. But they as many other people in Russian didn't know how dangerous was Plushy's injury. They thought Plushy needed to skate with pain!!!!! so they didn't say that would have been better if the Russians sent Kovtun to Sochi.. I quoted Plushy with this https://twitter.com/Lily_shenka/status/453179855278833665/photo/1 read!

Irina Rodnina: Her tweet after team LP:

RT @IRodnina: @EvgeniPlushenko Thank you for your courage, fortitude and convincing VICTORY!!https://twitter.com/IRodnina/status/432553910189166592
 

caelum

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Plushenko's just being his usual infantile self. He can't stand the idea of fading into anonymity in the next five years, which he will, so he has to have a few outbursts to keep the press interested. It's pathetic and desperate. At this point, he's just embarrassing himself.

What's most disappointing is people in this thread actually think Plushenko's behavior is fine. What's the point of being mean-spirited for the sake of it? I don't get it. Plushenko could have just said he has talent (which is true) and hopes to see great things from him in the future. That's how a normal, decent human being would answer any question about Kovtun. Also, as far as being "average," Kovtun's a national champion, two-time Grand-Prix event silver medalists, and a 4th place finisher at worlds. He's not average by any conventional definition of that word.

And I second some people above me about Pitkeev. It will be interesting to see how he develops.
 

volk

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
You are right. For me Pitkeev is more interesting and beautiful as Kovtun. And Petrov also has a very good chance to become a very good skater.

Pitkeev is no doubt a very good skater, but he's 15. His skating is very juniorish. How can you say he's better than Kovtun is beyond me. What will you do before him and Petrov grow up to be strong competitors? Bash Kovtun? If you have some sense of patriotism give Kovtun a chance.
 

JayW

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
It made me thinking two things:
1) Plushy is still bitter after lost the nationals to Kovtun
2) The extension of the Russian infight between Tat and Mishin
 

nimi

Medalist
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Plushenko's just being his usual infantile self. He can't stand the idea of fading into anonymity in the next five years, which he will

:laugh:

@JayW: your infighting theory surely holds water better than the one quoted above...
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
My theory is the Plushenko is mostly annoyed with constantly being asked to justify his being sent to the Olympics over Kovtun, despite the latter having no great international record (which includes only being the third Russian at the Europeans).

All this could have been avoided if the ISU hadn't put its foot down so publicly about skaters WDing between the team event and the individual.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
My theory is the Plushenko is mostly annoyed with constantly being asked to justify his being sent to the Olympics over Kovtun, despite the latter having no great international record (which includes only being the third Russian at the Europeans).

Agreed. He's on the defensive.

And he'd be right. Seriously, SERIOUSLY, what had Kovtun done to justify being sent to the Olympics? Across the two seasons, he won a JGPF thanks to his main opponent being ill, came 17th at Worlds, came last at the GPF, and then won Russian Nationals by beating a man who had four screws in his back, before proceeding to finish last of the three Russians at Euros. This is hardly the record of someone forcing their way onto the team. Kovtun himself left the door wide open for Plushenko and Plushenko did not hesitate to step through.

And a reminder please that the test skate was NOT Plushenko's choice. He wanted to go to Euros. He said as much after Nationals. He was over-ruled. He wanted the test skate to be open to the public. He was over-ruled. Plushenko is as much a pawn in the RFSF's evil game as Kovtun.

I would also like to ask how many of those attacking Plushenko's inclusion on the Olympic team justified Takahashi's?
 

volk

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Agreed. He's on the defensive.

And he'd be right. Seriously, SERIOUSLY, what had Kovtun done to justify being sent to the Olympics? Across the two seasons, he won a JGPF thanks to his main opponent being ill, came 17th at Worlds, came last at the GPF, and then won Russian Nationals by beating a man who had four screws in his back, before proceeding to finish last of the three Russians at Euros. This is hardly the record of someone forcing their way onto the team. Kovtun himself left the door wide open for Plushenko and Plushenko did not hesitate to step through.

And a reminder please that the test skate was NOT Plushenko's choice. He wanted to go to Euros. He said as much after Nationals. He was over-ruled. He wanted the test skate to be open to the public. He was over-ruled. Plushenko is as much a pawn in the RFSF's evil game as Kovtun.

I would also like to ask how many of those attacking Plushenko's inclusion on the Olympic team justified Takahashi's?

I'm actually glad Kovtun did go to Olympics. He already had too much scrutiny for his age.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Pitkeev is no doubt a very good skater, but he's 15. His skating is very juniorish. How can you say he's better than Kovtun is beyond me. What will you do before him and Petrov grow up to be strong competitors? Bash Kovtun? If you have some sense of patriotism give Kovtun a chance.

Oh, volk you are such a devoted hater. :) You don't like Kovtun...you didn't do these things for Kovtun..;) you want to bash Plushy. ;) But because I'm a big fan of him and I followed his every steps of his preparation to Sochi, I know his all interviews, I know the reasons of his words, I know what happened in the backround I know he is very elegante with Kovtun, you believe me. :yes: And he doesn't act himself. He is over that !! And some people don't like him? Who cares of it? Read his facebook page https://www.facebook.com/Plushenko?fref=ts, his twitter acount https://twitter.com/EvgeniPlushenko, read the Plushenko news https://twitter.com/PlushenkoNews on twitter !
The people admire and love him. fact.

I know what a great person he is.

I never bashed Kovtun, because that isn't my style..he isn't interesting for me that's all. I show you this, maybe you can do something with it..you can do a new bashing thread:

google translating:

“I feel much better now, and there was a repeat operation where they pulled out four screws and the entire structure was dismantled. The intervertebral disc has grown together; it doesn’t bother me. So everything is in order. After a month and a half or two, I’ll start training in preparation for exhibition performances and a show. We are now preparing a project where we must all meet up,”
........
- If you pay attention to all the negative, there will be no result. I am a creative person, and therefore must live on, go ahead and strive for something. In general, I am very kind, happy, joyful and peaceful person. I like to make people love gifts. On anger can not react angrily. It is necessary to treat people differently - to love and forgive. So I hold no grudge against anyone who talked about me some negative things, do not understand the situation, not understanding what happened, why it happened. Of course, there were a lot of negativity, but God will judge them.

Train himself or the Japanese?

- How do you do manage to disengage from the negative?
- I have great friends and family. They are always behind me and always support me in difficult and challenging moments. I grow a beautiful little son. I have so much to do, so much creativity! Now scheduled Japanese-Chinese tour. Then we are preparing a new project that will take place around the world. On this occasion, be sure to arrange a press conference, invite journalists communicate. My life is very much interesting. If you dwell on the negative, there will be no result.

- Is there any progress in terms of cooperation with the Sochi Olympic champion Japanese Yuzuru Hanyu? Rumor has it that you can become his coach.
- I will come to Japan in just a couple months and did not rule out that we will communicate with him. But we want to work more in figure skating at himself, make some new programs. Not saying that it will be in the sport, but in shows necessarily. I want to go and make new world premieres, shows, tours. Therefore, coaching is necessary to wait. While the desire to draw me as a coach and as a consultant for the technical component is and the Japanese and the American side. This applies hopping area footwork. But I still want to go on shows

:D ;)
 

volk

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Oh, volk you are such a devoted hater. :) You don't like Kovtun...you didn't do these things for Kovtun..;) you want to bash Plushy. ;)

If you want to play a victim card, go ahead. I am the one who actually stayed away from Olympic spot controversy, while so many were all over Plushenko. And I do like Kovtun. He's a young Russian skater with good potential.
 
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