The Japanese Ladies

Someone needs to get with the federation to work on the japanese ladies costumes!!! Ghastly!!! Pants, Fumie what are you thinking? Arikawa's tush was out all over the place in both her short and long programs... and miki's skirt length is always slightly off of a flattering design. Just my opinion... I dont mean to negate their fierce power as performers.

shine said:

This is OT, but I've always wondered why, with all the beautiful, ballet-trained skaters in dance, pairs, and even men, Russia has not been producing ladies with the same kind of classic elegance/lines? I think Markova and Butyrskaya have come the closest but still not exactly what I'd call classically elegant. Such a myth :\

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I have wondered about it too. The only explanation I can think of is that those with the elegant lines opt for pairs and ice dance. Maria had sophisticated lines, although her jumps were not soft. Is it possible that even now pairs and ice dance command more respect in Russia? The jumping beans have to skate in singles...?

Vash

Fossi said:

I like Shizuka and Fumie. I was disappointed with Miki. She looks like a power horse, but I was bored to tears. I wanted to see her quad and I wonder if that's all she has right now. Her LP was not up to par with the other ladies, even with the 3/3. I really wanted to be impressed with her, but I wasn't.

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I really feel that Miki is being judged too harshly, too soon. She is young and has not developed all aspects of her skating. Remember what Kristi Yamaguchi looked like in 1989, or Michelle in 1994. Miki needs time to develop her presentation.

I am less optimistic about Yoshie's presentation. It will improve, but will that be enough? I have never seen her land a 3-3 combination, or a triple axel.

Vash

Home town adavantage is a biggie, but I disagree that the homecrowd overly favored Lindemann and W&L in getting their medals.

For ice dance, W&L skate with lots of crossovers which is a pet peeve of mine, however all G&G did were spins and lifts with hardly any dance holds or footwork. Having seen their program, I am not surprised the W&L were on the podium over G&G because spins and lifts are pairs, not ice dance.

Lindemann: Having finally seen Lambiel's LP, I agreed with the judges that Lindemann was better. Lambiel had one pretty empty section (just crossovers) of his LP which I thought really hurt him, especially since Lindemann was moving throughout his program and Lindemann's artistry was very good, esp with the home crowd behind him.

MK's win in DC: I thought Elena deserved to win , however I think that MK would have won anywhere given the consideration the judges give to her longevity and artistry.

I'm not sure about Irina being on the podiium, but perhaps the home crowd will rouse her up.

I will predict that Plushy will have his best skate ever at worlds. Nothing puts more fire under than Plushy than skating before a home crowd, as evidenced by his performances at Russian Nats and Cup of Russia. I don't think that anyone will topple Plushy in Moscow unless he's severely injured, and even then I think the adrenaline will take over.

I see Sasha winning Worlds next year. She feels kinship with the Russian audience and they love her as well. There will be a lot of audience support for her, much more than will be for the Japanese ladies.

it is true the Russians love Sasha. Isn't she of Russian ancestry? I remember everyone saying she was. It will depend on how she skates, and how Irina skates.
I also agree that maybe I judged Ando too harshly on her first outting. She will improve. It was just the hype. I expected more.

Sasha's mother is from Ukraine.

Next year is too far away to say any skater will do well or poorly at the Worlds. I don't think that Arakawa was expected to be the next world champion after last year's Worlds in DC, and I wouldn't give Sasha the edge because her mother is of Ukrainian ancestry. If any of us were that good with a crystal ball, well, I know what I'd be doing at the moment.

Sasha gets the edge not only b/c her mother is of Ukrainian ancestry, but also b/c she speaks Russian, conducted her interviews when she did Cup of Russia in Russian (shaky but she's probably better now), plus she takes the time out in her schedule to compete in Cup of Russia when she doesn't really need the event to make the Grand Prix final, and last but not least, all audiences appreciate Sasha's extension and line and a Russian audience would be ESPECIALLY appreciative of her style. When she competed Cup of Russia, the home crowd went just as nuts for Sasha as they did their hometown girl.

Talking about Japaness ladies' dresses and programs, I feel Fumie's short program really hurt her placement. The idea may be new, and the black pants and outfit may be cute, but that's not something the international judges like. They want to see ballarina on ice in skates. Her short program and the outfit exposed more of her weakness, such as lack of extention, fully stretched inbetweens, and traditional spins that lady skaters should have.

Longhornliz said:

Pants, Fumie what are you thinking?

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Oh, Liz, I thought she was cute as the dickens in pants. Sort of went with the Rolling Stones theme, IMHO. (I agree about Shizuka's costumes, however, LOL.)

About Irena, it would be so great to see her come back healthy and wow the home crowd. But the more I read about her medical condition, the more it seems like this vasculitis thing might be cronic, or at least something that can flare up even after you think it's under control. I also read that the steroid treatment that she must undergo makes it difficult to keep from gaining weight.

Back on topic, I think Shizuka is the real thing. I don't see anything fluky about her performance at Worlds. She has been steadilty building to this peak for two years.

I think Mao Asada will be 16 in 2006. The next Tara/Sarah?

Mathman

Kateri said:

If we're talking podiums for 2006, I wouldn't rule Victoria Pavuk out of anything, if she improves her presentation.
Shame Hungary only had 1 spot at Worlds - you shoulda seen her at Euros!

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ITA! Her short programme was incredible, and her long was amazing too. After her skate, the British commentators said she was a "superstar" I really did think she was good, she has triple-triples (although they might have been slightly cheated on landings - I'd have to check, though IIRC they were at least almost clean), other great triples, very good speed and edges (especially on the FO spiral with her hand on the ice, and her edge must be less than 45 degrees... wow), good spins, great musicality and energy... She's not a ballerina, IIRC, but she's definitely one to watch. Almost got a medal in her first Euros, kept her composure in front of her home audience bringing the house down, and skated a great long even though she had the added pressure of knowing she was in 3rd place going in!

Wow.

I don't know if it's been mentioned before but I looked up Shizuka in an online dictionary and it means "quiet; peaceful." I think that's an appropriate name

Quite/Peaceful + fragrant.

mathman

I do like the concept of pants... I just think it was a bad decision because judges fear change. Its kinda like skating to a program with lyrics, or to the theme of robin hood (tanya harding, ick)

I didn't know Tonya Harding skated to Robin Hood. Katarina skated to it in leggings for her short program for the 1994 Olympics. She looked pretty good too.

Robin Hood was Tonya's 1992 LP music.

My thoughts:

Claro que si......of course it goes without saying that the Japanese skaters are certainly a force to be reckoned with.......have always been. In fact, I think it just goes to show that nobody should ever be counted out, especially if s/he has shown that s/he has the potential to skate great (aka Kwan, Cohen, Slutskaya, Kostner, Ando, Arakawa, et al)......just a matter of time.......before everything comes together.

The hard part is what follows thereafter, in order to prove that one is for "real" (as regards a medal threat in every competition from then on), one has to consistently hold to that high standard, which in Shizuka Arakawa's case would be having to perform near perfectly every time out - no falls, 6/7 triple programs, at the very least one 3/3 (no less will do), skated with confidence & attack. I wish her mucho suerte, especially as the only one that I can think of that has consistently performed to a high standard over a period of many years, and has never finished off the podium (either nationally or internationally) since 1996 (when she won her first of many Worlds Titles, not to mention Olympic Medals) is Michelle Kwan. That's a lot to live up to. Btw, Irina Slutskaya also fits into this category, and I would wager to bet Sasha Cohen is on her way as well (aka has dominated the Sr. Grand Prix for the last couple of seasons now, consistently medalled @ US Nationals since 2000, won GPF in December of 2002, Silver Medalist @ 2004 Worlds).

***Note: the above criteria could also be applied to Miki Ando as regards Jrs. - dominated/won ALL Jr. Grand competitions that she entered since she first hit the scene in 2001/2002, won Japan Jr. Nationals 3 times (tied w/Shizuka Arakawa as the most ever won by an individual), medalled @ JGPF every single time (won it twice), and medalled @ Jr. Worlds since she first debuted in 2002 (finally winning in 2004).***

That said, IMHO none of the present day Japanese skaters can compare to their countrywoman Midori Ito.........No Way..........heck, Fumie Suguri still has never skated a 7 triple program nor landed a 3/3 in competition (fact; almost 100% positive this is so). Nor have ANY of them landed a fully rotated 3A in competition, and that goes for the ones that have at least tried it (aka Nakano & Onda). Furthermore, the only one that equals Midori's phenomenal height on the jumps is Yoshie Onda (no b.s.). The others have excellent height, but nowhere near the former two (though Ando does attain it on the solo 3F & 3R). Lastly, Midori never underrotated her jumps (most likely b/c of the phenomenal height she attained; in fact she had "hang time" which is extremely RARE). This, unlike Arakawa & Ando's 3/3s, though I give them credit for trying & landing them (moreso for Ando's, whom usually lands them less than an 1/4 underrotated on the second jump, unlike Arakawa). JMHO.

***Note: not to mention Midori's super fast spins, speed, & power, and the records that she set (high ideal; aka first Japanese woman to win Worlds, first lady skater to land a 3A, as well as a 3/3 combo., and also highest finish for a Japanese lady @ Olympics - 2nd). 'nuff said.***

The following is how I presently view Japan's formidable skaters:

Shizuka Arakawa - the complete overall package skater.....has it all.....technical + very good presentation. Remains to be seen if she can hold on to that standard in the long run, which would require her to be in tip-top physical condition throughout the year. As Michelle Kwan stated at this past Worlds ~ when she was young, she always thought that she had to be in tip-top physical condition throughout the year ~ now she realizes that a skater can't keep that up indefinitely and now knows the term about "peaking" at the right time. Hopefully Shizuka was listening (already has a bandage on her thigh; perhaps from overjumping???).

Fumie Suguri - technically she's the weakest of the group, but presentation-wise she is very strong. Remains to be seen if she can upgrade her jump arsenal to that of her countrywomen...

Yoshie Onda - has the best jumps of them all, but still hasn't landed a 3/3 combo. (sequence, yes, combo. no) nor a 3A (though she came awfully close @ 2002 Bofrost Cup On Ice; landed but short of rotation; height was out of this world!). Also, what's really holding her back is the presentation aspect ~ hopefully she'll be fighting mad at being left off the Japanese Team for Worlds & do an Irina Slutskaya (ala 2000/2001 season). GOOOOOO YOSHIE! I believe (no lie).

Asada Sisters - too young (one of them is even age ineligible for the next Olympics), but what's really holding them both back is the massive underrotations on the 3/3s, as well as the other solo triples being weak. Personally, I think the problem is b/c they're built tall & skinny (ala Karen Kwan). Hopefully, as they grow & mature, they'll add power & strength to their skating. JMHO.

Yukina Ota - outdoes her peers on the presentation aspect ~ best of the bunch ~ but skating is more than about looking pretty on the ice. Still has work to do on the technical aspect. Actually, she's facing the opposite problem of her countrywoman Yoshie Onda. It remains to be seen which one is harder (or easier) to attain ~ aka presentation or technical. Bueno suerte to both of them.

Miki Ando - enigma (has the technical & her presentation is good). Literally has the ability to blow the field away........especially with her nuclear bomb full of exotic jumps & exquisite combos.........but will she have the "guts" to detonate them when the time comes. That is the question...

Peace & Best Wishes, Nadine

Excellent review, Nadine. I agree Midori was the greatest jumper of them all, and a wonderful spinner too. In addition, she had the charisma that is lacking in the Japanese ladies of today. However, many of them are certainly capable of winning at the world level, as Shizuka demonstrated. It will be interesting to see how she does next season. She has been improving continuously, so that is what I expect from her.

Yuka Sato turned pro after winning the 94 worlds and developed into a beautiful skater, but we will never know if she could have stayed at the top in the eligibles.

These girls are quite young (except Shizuka and Fumie) and they could be around a long time. Miki is still only 16 and already 4th in the world. She has the most potential of getting and staying at the top, although my favorite is Yukina Ota whose natural grace is unequalled in this group. I really hope she can master the difficult jumps. IMO it is harder to do that than to develop the presentation, but Yukina is young (17) so she has hope.

Yoshie could develop her presentation too, but I don't know if it will be enough to get her to the top, unless she is able to land the triple axel and a 3-3 combo. She will need both.

Fumie definitely needs a 3-3 to even make the Japanese world team at this point, even though she has the second best presentation of all (JMHO- I like Yukina's a little better, but Fumie is very strong presentation wise).

Shizuka has room to improve both technically and artistically. That should keep her motivated.

IMHO most of them are lagging behind the top US ladies in their artistry. They will have to upgrade their presentation, and the US ladies will have to upgrade their technical difficulty.

Vash

Fossi said:

it is true the Russians love Sasha. Isn't she of Russian ancestry? I remember everyone saying she was. It will depend on how she skates, and how Irina skates.
I also agree that maybe I judged Ando too harshly on her first outting. She will improve. It was just the hype. I expected more.

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The hype was certainly there. In terms of placement she did pretty good in her first worlds. I was disappointed that she did not land the quad salchow, but then how many skaters land a quad jump? If you take out 4-5 men that consistently land it, not many. Her performance at the Jr.Worlds was only slightly better, so for the senior level she was not quite there. I also suspect she was a bit nervous, being at her first worlds.

Vash