The Casual Viewer | Page 2 | Golden Skate

The Casual Viewer

nguyenghita

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
The fastest way to learn something completely new is that must come along with our favorite's thing or people. In fact, someone will automatically learn how to know/understand/judge skating just because of their beloved skater, that was happen with many general Asian these years :laugh:
 

arcticwolf

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Figure skating is a sport which is hard to figure out. Unlike in sports such as basketball and football where the winner is determined by the number of goals, or in tennis or volleyball wherein the most sets won is declared the winner, in fs judges are the rule. The best jumps, spins and step sequences are determined only by the judges and the system in a fashion not easily grasped even by fans, moreso casual viewers. Viewer education in any form such as documentaries maybe a good idea, or snippets explaining certain skating moves during a break in a fs broadcast. :)
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Disapointed they completely cut out Anna Pogorilya of the show for an extended Gold love fest.

Sorry what? Pogorilaya was the only clean skater (other than Edmunds) and she certainly outskated Gold. To draw in casual viewers, they need to see skaters like Pogorilaya delivering clean programs and being rewarded for it. Not skaters like Kostner and Gold being good enough for bronze and 5th.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I think the OP makes a valid point, though. Casual viewers are used to formats like So You Think You Can Dance, where the whole point is to come up with a new routine every week. A sport like hockey, not so much, because there is no performance art aspect to hockey like there is to figure skating.

That is one of the things that killed interest in professional skating on TV. For a while there, almost every week you could see the same half-dozen skaters doing the same routines and finishing in the same order in one "competition" after another. I lost track of how many times I saw Yuka Sato's "Hatful of Stars" finishing second to whatever Kristi Yamaguchi had that year. ;)

Maybe there is an opportunity for the ISU to use the Grand Prix in a more imaginative way. Require the skaters to display a variety of programs in different styles, rather than just use the series as an extended practice for worlds.
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Maybe there is an opportunity for the ISU to use the Grand Prix in a more imaginative way. Require the skaters to display a variety of programs in different styles, rather than just use the series as an extended practice for worlds.
The problem is, after months of training the same program, do you think the skaters have enough time for various program per season? Or we would rather kill the long program in Grand Prix, just save the short program so skaters have chances to display variety of short programs? And save the long program only for the final and worlds?
 

UnsaneLily87

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
I think the OP makes a valid point, though. Casual viewers are used to formats like So You Think You Can Dance, where the whole point is to come up with a new routine every week. A sport like hockey, not so much, because there is no performance art aspect to hockey like there is to figure skating.

That is one of the things that killed interest in professional skating on TV. For a while there, almost every week you could see the same half-dozen skaters doing the same routines and finishing in the same order in one "competition" after another. I lost track of how many times I saw Yuka Sato's "Hatful of Stars" finishing second to whatever Kristi Yamaguchi had that year. ;)

Maybe there is an opportunity for the ISU to use the Grand Prix in a more imaginative way. Require the skaters to display a variety of programs in different styles, rather than just use the series as an extended practice for worlds.

The words "hatful of stars" give me an immediate flashback to the late 1990s.

And this attitude was prevalent as well. My ex-partner would comment on it when we watched skating (ex for a reason! Not that reason. But maybe that contributed?).
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The cost of choreographing multiple programs would probably take a toll on skaters. Not to mention, skaters need to develop a comfort level. I think if the ISU forced skaters to skate different programs, we'd see a lot of re-used programs, and we'd also see a lot of programs not live up to their potential. Obviously some programs start really poorly in the beginning of the season and are polished towards the end of it.
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
The cost of choreographing multiple programs would probably take a toll on skaters. Not to mention, skaters need to develop a comfort level. I think if the ISU forced skaters to skate different programs, we'd see a lot of re-used programs, and we'd also see a lot of programs not live up to their potential. Obviously some programs start really poorly in the beginning of the season and are polished towards the end of it.
True, and it's also a joy to see how skaters' progress from the beginning of each season to the end. Like at Skate America, he/she struggled with the axel but landed it perfectly in grand prix final or worlds.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Hm.

It's hard to think of ways to make competitive figure skating simultaneously fairly measure the hard work skaters put into developing their technical skills and also appeal to casual audiences who do not know or want to know much about skating technique.

For audiences who want novelty (frequent new programs from their favorite skaters), variety of skaters shown but also familiar faces they can bond with, music and dance styles they can relate to, exhibitions serve that purpose better than competition. But then you don't get the drama about who wins.

Reality shows with active competitive skaters could certainly educate audiences, but they can be distracting for the skaters who participate (or other skaters who compete against them or train at the same rink).

Reality shows with pro skaters doing entertainment-oriented numbers could be more successful as entertainment. But unless there are big names involved, without the tension of real sports competition at stake, the examples that have been tried in the US haven't attracted much attention. And if non-skater celebrities are involved, the level of skating will necessarily be much lower and focus more on lifts and other eye-catching partner interactions than actual skating skills. So audiences might be entertained but still wouldn't learn much about skating technique as measured in sport competition.

There have been some movies about figure skating, no major box office hits. Most tend to focus on melodrama and/or to portray skating as a joke, sometimes a loving one, with real-life facts often sacrificed for plot points.

The trick is to be hip in ways that appeal to modern audiences while taking the sport itself seriously as sport.

I fantasize about a scripted TV drama that features competitive figure skating. E.g., a soap opera set at a training center. Or a crime drama with one or more detectives who are also former competitors or high-level adult competitors. Get the details of the sport correct, but focus on the drama.

I can anticipate practical and cost barriers to making this reality, assuming audiences were even interested. Ideally the stars would be retired skaters turned actors. How many such individuals even exist, who can both skate and act at a level that audiences would find entertaining not painful?
So I don't expect it ever to happen. But I can dream.

I'm thinking that a soap opera centering on ice dancers who often switch partners on and off ice would have potential. More built-in drama than with singles, and more potential for choreography that retired competitors-turned-actors can learn each week but that looks plausible as competitive programs, even if the knowledgeable fans can see why it wouldn't challenge for real-life medals.
 

Anna K.

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Latvia
@ gkelly as a tech specialist:

In ballroom dance competitions, dancers perform the same routines to different music. What exactly makes it impossible in the case of ice dance?
 

pamela

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
I'm a new fan of figure skating and as a new viewer I can say that is such a hard sport to understand.
I have watched gymnastics practically my entire and I thought those rules were confusing for the first time viewer or people who only watch for the olympics, but fs is in another level...
Anyways, for new fans who really want to get into the sport they want to find out where the points come from and what I find really useful for new gymnastics fans are score guides (insert gymnast name + D score in YT and you will find practically every routine) where a routine plays in the bg while the names of the elements appear with its difficulty value and combination bonuses and the difficulty of the whole routine at the end, so it helps for people to understand why X gymnasts didnt get a good score if it seemed like a clean routine because at the end it wasnt as difficult as it needed to be. Since those guides helped new gym fans to understand some elements I immediately tried to find those kind of guides for figure skating (because at first glance and for the untrained eye everthing looks as the same jump except for axels) and all I found in YT were like selftrained jumps (or its just me and my poorly searchin technique)
So videos saying what element is a skater performing would make life easier to new fans IMO. The trend picked up so good in the gymnastics enviroment that the FIG channel (the ISU in fs) is making videos explaining skills and deductions.

Also for any person familiar to "subjective" sports know that its almost impossible to come up with multiple programs in a year.

I really think that easy to find info is really the key.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
In ballroom dance competitions, dancers perform the same routines to different music. What exactly makes it impossible in the case of ice dance?

With compulsory dances they did that all the time.

If the short dance rules were to require only one rhythm and tempo throughout, then they should be able to switch to a different song with the same rhythm and tempo and stay on beat for the whole dance. Some of the nuances choreographed specifically for one piece of music might get lost with a different piece.

Any SDs that switch between rhythms require special editing, so every other musical selection would also have to be specially edited the same way. Not very practical.

Free dances don't have to be a standard ballroom rhythm, so it would be very unlikely to find different music that fits exactly the same shape as the choreography.

So videos saying what element is a skater performing would make life easier to new fans IMO. The trend picked up so good in the gymnastics enviroment that the FIG channel (the ISU in fs) is making videos explaining skills and deductions.
...
I really think that easy to find info is really the key.

So in the past decade or less that youtube has been around, gymnastics fans started the trend of making and sharing educational videos, and the federations picked up on that trend and started doing the same?

I don't have the video-editing skills to do anything like that. It certainly would be good if some skating fans who do have both the skating knowledge and the would make such learning tools and post them to youtube.

What kind of details do you want information on? The Figure Skating References forum here at Golden Skate is a good source of information.

Check out my posts in the Edges and turns for examples of the basic moves of actual skating, aside from the elements; dorispulaski has started a few threads about ice dance elements; and others have also contributed useful information.

Feel free to start a new thread there requesting focus on specific kinds of skills.

I can only link to existing videos and give explanations on the forum next to the links.
I don't know how to make a new video that would combine my comments with new or existing video.

Even better if skating federations or broadcasters would develop audience-education videos from scratch, illustrating moves in isolation with informative commentary -- for sale on DVD, or as online posts. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be their priority.
 

Anna K.

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Latvia
^
There is a reason why I asked.

There was an ice dance couple that I particularly liked because their programs were so different. I eventually ended up watching their routines on Youtube over and over again and then I realized that they… kept doing the same tricks in changed order and sometimes even that was the same! Just, their choice of music and costumes made their programs look different – even surprisingly different – every time. Of course the FD is a rather long performance and some storytelling is supposed to be here so it could hardly be skated with occasional music; but I think there are always several pieces of music/mixes suitable for the same routine if the novelty effect was demanded. Should it be demanded? That is of course another question. New costumes may cost a fortune and I’m afraid that skaters actually don’t earn that much :)
 

pamela

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
So in the past decade or less that youtube has been around, gymnastics fans started the trend of making and sharing educational videos, and the federations picked up on that trend and started doing the same?

.....

Since last year the FIG channel started posting educational videos, not with a huge amount of info like the fan made ones but they are explaining the "judge slang" in which the CoP is written and the new skills gymnasts submitted at last years worlds. And we consider it as a huge step for gymnastics being more understanble for the occasional viewer.
Its crazy what fans can do for the love of the sport (and free time of course). There are guides with literally every skill in the CoP and the exact music cuts gymnasts use in their floor exercises.

Also in tumblr, people are making gif guides of elements and giving a "new fan" explaination to them, that I find really useful.

And thank your for those links, I've reading for hours the different threads in the Reference section over and over again (when I like a sport I want to know everthing about it hahaha) and Im very proud to say that I can finally see the difference between a lutz and a flutz!! I will ask you if I cant understand something :)

One more thing, I find it incredible that the ISU post the protocols after minutes the competition is over. Once someone posts the video on youtube, I have the protocol in hand and I learn the skills names and values and some how get a clue of how the GOEs work.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I didn't even watch this weekend...a big reason is that I was busy editing photos from the SOI show I attended, but honestly, a combination of "viewer fatigue" from the long Olympic season and general disinterest brought about by what transpired over the past month or so led to me not caring, really.

I'm not even sure I'm fully committed to following next season at this point. I'll still attend shows and stuff (great photo-taking opportunities), but as far as competitive skating goes I may be done for the moment. Wake me up when something interesting happens...
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2014
I said this in a different thread, but I don't think that casual American viewers will start caring about skating until we get more American ladies on international podiums. Unfortunately, for most Americans, figure skating = the ladies' individual event. (D/W and Evan didn't really begin to enjoy mainstream attention until after their careers were over).

I think that CoP has turned off casual viewers as well. They don't understand edge calls and URs, and wonder how someone can bomb the LP and still win a championship.
 

alebi

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
This "problem" is really discouraging and some casual viewers' reactions are pretty stupid. I mean even when you're listening to a song it always plays the same, so you should stop listening to it once you've heard it, isn't? :scowl:
Ok you can hear a live version, an acoustic version and so on.. but why, then, do you buy the album? On the album you'll always hear the same version.... But figure skating doesn't work as a RECORDED song since a human luckily can't perform any time the same exact excercise and if you watch FS all the season you notice the differences from a performance to another, from the first performance of the season to the final and usually most refined version.
And there's no difference with any other sport since even when you're watching, for example, soccer you always see players passing a ball for 90+ minutes and SOMETIMES doing a goal... so isn't it boring and always the same too? No, it's not, if you enjoy watching the sport only for the pleasure of it and are able to get the details. If you're expecting fireworks or special effects everytime then you should find another hobby and I also think you have a very little sport culture in general.

Ok... after my long rant (sorry!) I have only a suggestion... Since casual viewers want more different performances and figure skating needs more popularity then TVs and ISU should promote and broadcast more off-season shows. For me this isn't not a sport, just a plus you can watch to enjoy but if this can help to bring more followers it's ok to me
 
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