Russian Nationals podium | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Russian Nationals podium

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
I think predicting the men is always terribly difficult - because they ALL can be so up-and-down. Not just the Russians. I mean, participating in the Prediction Game has really shown me that - I never fancied my predicting skillz, so missing them would be no surprise to me - but even for our best predictors it was virtually impossible to nail them all. Easily the most unpredictable discipline. I honestly doubt that any Russian man (barring whatever Plushy may get up to) will dominate four years - unless someone comes on in leaps & bounds and becomes very much more consistent, and where they live up to their potential. Men is my favourite discipline, and the one that disappoints me most. There is so much potential with so many skaters - and scarcely do we get to see a fraction of it realised. A few good skates, maybe, a few great ones - the occasional brilliant one. But... (shrugs)
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
The men are crazy with their inconsistency. Who would have ever predicted even the possability of Ten to be on the podium at either last years worlds or this years Olympics, and he was robbed of winning gold at worlds, and won his Olympic bronze with a bad short and unclean long to boot.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
^Pretty much agree regarding the men's events. It's almost always a splatfest, with the ones that survive winning. The only difference between Sochi and previous Olympics is that even the top two weren't clean.

I wouldn't mind Gachinski and Kovtun alternating as top skater for the next few years. Will keep them both on their toes, and they'll push each other to be better. Maybe in the process, one--or both--will develop some amount of consistency, but I probably shouldn't get my hopes up.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
I would dearly love to see Artur rise again and fulfil that wonderful promise. If the cockroaches have been exterminated from his head, then I believe it can happen :)

I always thought one of the mistakes they made was they switched to "serious" and "dark" programs too soon. Artur was just 18 when they pulled out "The Demon". He always had better success when the programs were light-hearted and quirky - remember The Bolt? Remember St Louis Blues? That's what he needs to go back to. IMO.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
It's probably a gut thing but I really like Voronov's chances. He just seems to really enjoy skating and his character is addictive to someone like me. The group he skates with is so young it may serve to lift him to a higher competitive "skate of mind". (sorry) He is no stranger to that podium. Maybe it is just a sentimental pick but I think that is ok. :)
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
I can see Voronov winning the next nationals. I just can't see him suddenly having great international success and/or making it to the next Olympics (and being competitive there). And I suspect because he won't be an Olympics contender, the judges will likely hold him down and prop up Kovtun as their "future."

I personally have no problems with Gachinski's "dark" programs. I think if he skates a program clean, the judges will reward him. The problem is that he seems to have lost the ability to skate clean. I hope he can fix this ASAP, because he's the most enjoyable to watch among the remaining Russian men (when he's on).
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
I personally have no problems with Gachinski's "dark" programs. I think if he skates a program clean, the judges will reward him. The problem is that he seems to have lost the ability to skate clean. I hope he can fix this ASAP, because he's the most enjoyable to watch among the remaining Russian men (when he's on).

I like the dark programs - but I think he needs counterbalance, one dark, one light, and especially after Nice, they just went for 100% dark, which can't have been helping his cockroaches any.

Artur seems to lack belief in himself. And that's why it'll be good for him to get away from Plushenko's shadow, especially if Plushenko is staying on another year. He needs to find his own skating identity, rather than just the clone-of-Plushenko. It's my dearest skating wish to see Artur stand on the top step, to see Artur return to the form that made him world bronze medallist at 17 and European silver at 18. He's still so young! Gosh, to think he's actually younger than Max Aaron!
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Hmm, well, if the light programs help him stay on his feet I have no problem with him bringing them back!

I don't think being under Plushenko's shadow is the problem (or at least not the major part of it). Being under the shadow of Plushenko of all people shouldn't be enough to bring down Artur. Frankly, the whole of men's figure skating has been under "Plushenko's shadow" for a decade. It's just something you gotta live with. ;)

The expectation is probably the bigger problem--the promise that he'd be the next Plushenko, the future of Russian FS, ect. ect. Definitely shouldn't have hyped him up that way. There's only one Plushenko, there can't be another, and frankly there shouldn't be another. Artur never came across as a Plush-clone to me, anyhow.

Didn't Artur get brought down with a string of injuries, plus a "personal problem" Mishin alluded to? I hope he gets those problems fixed, gets his nerves sorted out, and gets his jumps back. After that, we can talk about stuff like "finding his own identity."
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Kovtun's had his own share of huge bombs. His Worlds skate wasn't great either. He came fourth 'cause no one was there at the post-Olympics Worlds.

I think if both skate clean with similar content, Artur has the artistic edge over Kovtun. Anyway, it's too early to call, especially since they're both prone to inconsistency. Maybe I'm being optimistic because I'd much rather have four years of Artur as the top Russian man over Kovtun.

Are you kidding me? He landed a quad, 3Z+3T, and both triple axels, and his only SP error was a UR quad (while landings he other one) and his only FS error was a singled quad which is better than certain World Champions this season on the GP. In his first senior GP season at Worlds. He jumped from 17th to 4th. Are you saying everyone who placed 5th and lower is negligible? :rolleye:

Let it be known, Kovtun's "bomb" was as a junior fast tracked to senior. If people want to pretend like he should be treated as a senior at Worlds 2013, that's on them but there's no denying he was at the JGPF mere months before competing at Worlds and to expect him to do well at Worlds was as delusional as the Russian Fed. And to vilify him for it as is asinine as Plushenko criticizing him for bein unable to be able to cope with being thrown into the senior's lion den, whether Tarasova pushed for it or not.


Artur having an artistic edge over Kovtun? :laugh: I suppose you think Plushenko is a visionary compared to Curry too? :laugh:
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
I'm not saying his Worlds skate was horrible. Just saying it wasn't that great. Artur Gachinski, when he's on, can easily crush that skate. Sadly, he hasn't been on for a while (as I've admitted in my previous posts). Popping that quad into a single (should it even be called a single? It was basically a hop) is very, very costly under COP. As Carol Lane repeated non-stop during the Olympics broadcast--singling is the kiss of death. So yes, I think he's lucky to be in fourth place. It's better to plan and execute two quads properly than it is to plan three and single one of them (and in this case, only execute one quad). In fact, Kovtun seems to have this habit of popping quads into singles. His instincts are all wrong for COP--better to have Hanyu's "rotate and fall" instincts no matter how ungainly it looks.

I commend him for going from 17th to 4th. One okay performance at a post-Olympics Worlds doesn't mean he's suddenly the epitome of consistency. Regardless of the circumstances under which he has entered seniors, he has not been consistent thus far. Maybe he can grow into a consistent skater. Who knows. But the Worlds performance isn't enough to convince me of that.

And yes, I find Artur's skating vastly more enjoyable than Kovtun's. Obviously our tastes are different--I'm not gonna dictate yours and you're not gonna change mine. Not sure what either Curry or Plush has to do with this.
 

volk

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
I'm not saying his Worlds skate was horrible. Just saying it wasn't that great. Artur Gachinski, when he's on, can easily crush that skate. Sadly, he hasn't been on for a while (as I've admitted in my previous posts). Popping that quad into a single (should it even be called a single? It was basically a hop) is very, very costly under COP. As Carol Lane repeated non-stop during the Olympics broadcast--singling is the kiss of death. So yes, I think he's lucky to be in fourth place. It's better to plan and execute two quads properly than it is to plan three and single one of them (and in this case, only execute one quad). In fact, Kovtun seems to have this habit of popping quads into singles. His instincts are all wrong for COP--better to have Hanyu's "rotate and fall" instincts no matter how ungainly it looks.

I commend him for going from 17th to 4th. One okay performance at a post-Olympics Worlds doesn't mean he's suddenly the epitome of consistency. Regardless of the circumstances under which he has entered seniors, he has not been consistent thus far. Maybe he can grow into a consistent skater. Who knows. But the Worlds performance isn't enough to convince me of that.

And yes, I find Artur's skating vastly more enjoyable than Kovtun's. Obviously our tastes are different--I'm not gonna dictate yours and you're not gonna change mine. Not sure what either Curry or Plush has to do with this.

This criticism is unfair because Kovtun is a few years younger than Arthur. Give him time to develop artistry.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Kovtun's 18 right now. I prefer the skates Artur churned out at 18 over Kovtun's current skates. Though, obviously, Kovtun is skating better than Artur right now. Hard to even judge artistically because Artur's technical struggles are (inevitably) cutting into his overall performance.

Once again, never said Kovtun can't develop. I'm waiting for it. But can't go counting the chickens before they hatch.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
To Sandpiper. This is way, way, way off topic, but I have to ask: Are you an Ilia Kulik fan? :) (Кулик = Sandpiper.)
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Um, I enjoy what I've seen of Kulik's skating, and I think he's a great Olympic champion. I'm not sure if that's good enough for "fan." I had no idea about the connection between my username and him! The username actually comes from somewhere else entirely. I know zero Russian, so I had no idea what his name meant.
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
I saw them both at the show tonight. Gachinskij skates much smoother than Kovtun. He has very good potential. I also liked Stéphane Lambiel.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Well, it's a show. We'll have to wait and see how they do in competition. But I'm glad to hear that Gachinski is at least putting on a good performance. Recently, I've wondered if he even enjoys skating anymore, considering all his troubles.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
This criticism is unfair because Kovtun is a few years younger than Arthur. Give him time to develop artistry.

Kovtun is under two years younger than Artur. And if people are allowing Plushenko/Yagudin, then they have to allow that.

Kovtun's 18 right now. I prefer the skates Artur churned out at 18 over Kovtun's current skates.

And Artur's skates at 17 were also much better. Kovtun went to worlds for the first time at 17 and came 17th; Artur went to Worlds for the first time at 17 and came third. Kovtun has not yet medalled at Euros at 18; at 18, Artur won the silver at Euros, and arguably should have been champion. (I wonder if anything would have changed, had that Euros been marked correctly?)

I saw them both at the show tonight. Gachinskij skates much smoother than Kovtun. He has very good potential. I also liked Stéphane Lambiel.

Oh, thankyou :)

Gachinski's triple axel first time was twofooted, second time was OK. Kovtun tried quad salchov.

Ohhh, I love Artur's 3A. It's the most beautiful, biggest, and best 3A in all of Russia...even nicer than Plushenko's! Thanks for the report!
 
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