The USA Ladies

We are still musing over the Japanese Ladies and so why not muse over the USA Ladies.

The Americans have two very well accomplished lady figure skaters; both of whom have recently landed on the Worlds podium and prior to that one had several World titles and the other a Series of gold Grand Prix Events. It appears that they will receive a bi for the PreOly Worlds in Moscow (and quite possibly, the Olympics in 2006, too). So we go to the stable as we did with the Japanese Ladies to find a third

In no particular order I list:

JENNY - unfortunately, after a very good Nats, she was unable to deliver one good skate in Dortmund. Can she get it back togetheR again and compete with the best?

ANN PATRICE - Unquestionably one beautiful lyrical skater but last season was just not going to do it for her. Can she recoup?

ANGELINA NIKIDINOV - A beloved skater in GS but can she finally rid herself of the demons?

[BEATRISA LIANG - A proven dynamo at one one of last season's GP events. Can she hold onto that and make a more serious move this year?

YE BIN MOK Undoubtedly the best jumper in the USA arsenal of Ladies and a lovely skater too. Can she hold it together next season?

KIMMIE MEISNER and KATY TAYLOR These two ladies are moving up to the Seniors and both made impressive showings in the Junior Worlds. Are they ready for Seniors?


AMBER CORWIN Showed a lot of talent last Nats, but will she repeat?

I]The above listed ladies' only hope for the Worlds is a 3rd at Nationals. Which one will likely make it?[/I]


[How does this team stack up with the Japanese Ladies team?

Joe

Joe,

Quite a lineup of extremely talented ladies.

ANGELA NIKIDINOV----I feel she needs to make her mark next year or I'm afraid that's it for her. She will be 24 years old in a few weeks. Time is running out. She is a beautiful skater but has never been able to get passed the habit of making one error and throwing away the rest of the program. Nothing is impossible but with all the talent among the US ladies, Angela's chances are getting buried.

Dizzy

Joesitz said:

We are still musing over the Japanese Ladies and so why not muse over the USA Ladies.
Joe

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Joe,

Here is my take on the US ladies you mentioned (I can't think of anyone you missed).

Jenny: Yes, she can recoup and deliver some solid performances. May be even medal at one of the worlds. She has a lovely carriage and she can do a 3-3.

Ann Patrice: She may have an uphill battle, mostly psychological, from the tidbits I read about her. She must learn to enjoy skating. She too will need a 3-3 although her artistry can partly make up for it.

Angela: I was a big fan of hers, but can she compete with the jumping dynamos? Her nerves are always in question. As much as I love her skating, I am not optimistic about her making the US team in the future.

Biatrisa & Ye Bin Pak: Both are skaters with great potential but i am concerned about their injuries. If they can overcome those, they certainly have futures. Certainly after 2006 (for Beatrisa at least)

Amber: I admire her perseverance but I don't think she is going to make the team. There is too much competition out there.

Kimmie & Katy: I watched them in Jr.worlds. They looked like promising youngsters but I don't see them compete with the seniors for the USA in 2005 worlds. However, in 2006 they will be 15-16 and that is a magic number for the Olympic year (for ladies at least).

How do they stack up against the Japanese ladies? I would say very well. They may be a little weak in the jumps (3-3's and 3A, Quad), but they are more rounded skaters. Even the young ones have good presentation skills. With the exception of Yukina Ota, I don't see the young Japanese girls with good presentation (at least the ones I have seen. I still have not watched the tape of one of the Asada's at Jr. Worlds).

Vash

Great list Joe-

I feel that the girls coming up from jrs are the ones to watch for the upcoming olympics. It just wouldnt be a recent olympics if kwan wasnt being challenged by a teeny bopper who just burst on the scene.

I think amber corwin is done. I know she had a good season, but I dont think she is olympic material.

APM has such promise, I would like to see her do well in the pre olympic year.

I think Michelle and Sasha can stack up totally against the Japanese Ladies, and their tech, while not the 3-3's, and their musical interpretation are first rate. The third spot on the ladie's team is the question mark. I am going out on a limb and will say look to Beatrisa. She's young, has the artistry and is nearly there with the tech.......if she can just stay healthy.

Jenny has too many off performances, is not consistent when it counts, and Angela, though I love her skating, has past her amateur peak.........now, if A.P. can rally herself, she could be right up there with Beatrisa........42

us ladies

Lets just say MK & SC are locks for the Olympics even if they bomb at Nats. Now on to 3rd place. I'd say someone unknown or someone from the list below will surprise us.

The outlook for now.

Look out for Kimmie or Katie. Either they'll be fantastic or go through a huge growth spurt or injuries and be done. Can they do a Michelle transformation from cute little girl to a dramatic Salome by 2006 or will they be battling it out for 2010?

The rest.

Jenny, No.
AP, No, although I would love her to prove me wrong, such a beautiful skater.
Amber, definately No. I like her but even if she skates the program of her life, they're not going to give that 3rd spot to her IMO.
Bebe, No.
Yebin, No.
Angela, No.

These ladies are good skaters, but the younger ones will slowly pass them by in the next two years. 2006 will it for them, the only one that might stick around after 2006 is probably Bebe, since she's still pretty young.

Can they do a Michelle transformation from cute little girl to a dramatic Salome by 2006 or will they be battling it out for 2010?

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What a odd thing to say. I saw nothing of the fresh faced, pony tailed Kwan in these 2. To me, they both screamed TARA! The hair, make-up, nails, glitzy costumes, showy music, etc... I don't know how you are defining "cute little girl" but these 2 are way more JonBene Ramsey than Punky Brewster.

I think Michelle and Sasha will have a hard time against the Japanese ladies. Shizuka has worked on her presentation and has the jumps. Michelle could compete with 7 triples. Sasha has trouble staying on her feet. I don't think she has skated a clean LP yet. This is an area of concern for me when it comes to Sasha.
I think Jenny Kirk is beautiful. She did not do well at all at Worlds though. I don't know what the deal is there. She did so well in the beginning. Does she have confidence issues?

berthes ghost said:

What a odd thing to say. I saw nothing of the fresh faced, pony tailed Kwan in these 2. To me, they both screamed TARA! The hair, make-up, nails, glitzy costumes, showy music, etc... I don't know how you are defining "cute little girl" but these 2 are way more JonBene Ramsey than Punky Brewster.

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Haha, I agree. All three US girls from the Junior Worlds made me think of Tara.

Angela N- Never unless she lands a triple axel. She's had her opportunity at numerous international competitions and blown it. She's not going to get the 3rd spot unless she wins the Grand Prix or something, which I highly doubt.

AP and Beatrisa- definite possibilities

Daniela Khaele and Kimmie Neissner- definite possibilities as well, Kimmie strikes out at me for some reason so she might be another Tara.

Amber Corwin: People might not agree with me here, but Amber is dark horse. Yes she's old , however she's been steadily improving which is a biggie in my book. She hasn't had the opportunities that Angela has had so I think the USFSA might be willing to give her a shot. She has been a great ambassador for the sport and her work as an athlete's representative, in addition to her steady improvement and steady skating might net her that 3rd spot. Plus the USFSA might want a steady skater to ensure that the 3rd spot is secured for the Olympics.

Jenny: ABSOLUTELY NOT. FLAME ME IF YOU WISH, but the girl is a flake. She pulled out of Worlds before and she had a horrible performance here. If she was in a regular job and was assigned an important job and flaked out like she did twice, no boss would give her a third chance. The Donald would fire her. Plus the USFSA is not as generous with that 3rd spot anymore. Look at Nicole Bobek how she did so horrible at the Oly and there was no way the USFSA would even give her a spot on the World team. The only reason they were so patient with her before was because the US team wasn't that deep. Now it is and these girls are auditioning for a spot on the team with every performance at every meet.

Joe, you did forget one little skater, Danielle Kahle from Sr. Nationals (and also Jr. Worlds), another skater very very reminiscent of Tara. She did not do well at Jr. Worlds, but had a very good skate at Nationals.

I hope Yebin is going to overcome her back problems and be the next Shizuka. At 19, she has 3 years before she reaches a Shizuka peak at 22. Unfortunately, that is a year after Torino.

And I still have a few stray sad hopes for Angela. Although her 4C's LP performance was not good, she did pull it together and land 2 triples at the end of the program. (think it was 2?? It was at least 1) Angela's typical signature is to make one mistake, usually on the loop, and then double everything. So she may be getting it all back again. to Angela

Katy and Kimmie and Danielle are great, but will probably stay in juniors as they are only 14 now. The one that wins Jr. Worlds next year is the one that will go for 2006 World seniors.

Bebe has really wonky jump landings, like Sasha at her worst. It's why she keeps being injured, and has falls. She has to fix that. I didn't see any improvement between 2002 and 2004 Nationals. And she has grown. But she has great drive and great speed. Go Bebe.

For some reason, Jenny, even when she's on, hasn't really caught the International judges' eye. There used to be speed issues, as well as flutz issues. However, she has a good 3/3. COP as currently constructed, rewards 3t/3t very well. We can only hope.

Amber...actually Amber did very well with international judges after she restructured her program after Nebelhorn. I would not be at all surprised if she did get a lifetime achievement award next year from the US judges by winning the bronze and getting a trip to worlds, particularly if her GP season is better than Jenny's and she skates well at Nats. Amber is the Maria B of the USA. Well not as pretty, but has some of the same issues.

I have never been able to get into AP's skating, although I recognize its strong points. Since she doesn't enjoy it, I don't enjoy it either. When she enjoys it, I expect to change my mind about her.

Don't forget about Jane Bugaeva, either. I think she's much better than Danielle Kahle. Jane finished 9th in Senior ladies and should have gone to Jr Worlds over her.

As I was reading this list, I had thought of Danielle Kahle who impressed me 2 years ago at a JGP here. However, she did not do that well later. I watched her at USN but she was not the same girl. I like Kimmie's chances better, among the young ones.

Verbalgirl77 said:

Don't forget about Jane Bugaeva, either. I think she's much better than Danielle Kahle. Jane finished 9th in Senior ladies and should have gone to Jr Worlds over her.

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For Jane to really reach the elite level, she needs a new coaching environment. From what I've read, she has dismal ice time, and can only get in limited practice hours. Danielle, OTOH, is with the Carroll camp.

Ptichka said:

For Jane to really reach the elite level, she needs a new coaching environment. From what I've read, she has dismal ice time, and can only get in limited practice hours. Danielle, OTOH, is with the Carroll camp.

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Ugh, that's so unfortunate. I think she's so talented and has nice presentation as well. Maybe another coach who saw her at Nationals or Eastern Sectionals might be willing to give her an 'upgrade' to a better environment.

This is a very interesting question, but before I give my opinion, I need to ask a question as well.
I am confused about the eligibility of Kahle, Meissner and Taylor. I thought they were too young for 2005 Worlds ... does that then mean they would not be old enough for Turino too?

Depending on the answer to that question, the results could be huge.
I rather think the U.S. ladies are weak once you get past MK and Sasha. This whole crew of promising skaters like AP, Bebe, Yebin ... they have been a big disappointment to me. Injuries have put them all far behind schedule, and frankly, I don't know that any of them can really make much noise at this point. Then you have the lovely, but I think hopeless Angela ... forget Amber ... nice young lady with a good work ethic, but she's gone as far as she ever will. Jenny is a possibility, but I have my doubts about her too ... if she can really hold it together for an entire competition. I'd love to be wrong since I simply adore her, but I'm not holding my breath.
So now we come back to the trio I first mentioned. If they are eligible, it might not be too far fetched to think that one of them could make a big move at the next two Nationals before the 2006 games. The question marks here are of course injuries ... it's frightening IMO the number of young skaters suffering serious injuries, ones which completely derail their careers. This is why it's even hard to say what will happen with the Japanese ladies. All these 3/3's and quads are a nightmare IMO. Why do you think someone like Michelle has lasted this long ... because she hasn't pushed her body to these lengths. Some critisize her, but hey ... name me a young skater who wouldn't want to have half the career she has.
Another potential problem IMO is Sasha. I am not totally convinced she will withstand the pressure of the next few seasons. Her talent is undeniable, but she does have a problem delivering in the big moments ... and this was in a season where she attempted no 3/3's or quads. What happens when she now tries next season to fill her programs back up for COP ... plus add the technical difficulty with harder jumps and combos. And, her back injury of a few seasons ago occurred when she was training the quad I believe. Lots of question marks.
It's kind of odd to me that so many people on the different boards keep campaigning for MK to retire to help the U.S. ladies. My thinking is the USFSA should beg her to stay in ... otherwise the US could just end up with noone on the podium in Turino. Again ... these are all just my opinions, and I'm usually wrong ... so take them for what they're worth. LOL

For Jane to really reach the elite level, she needs a new coaching environment. From what I've read, she has dismal ice time, and can only get in limited practice hours. Danielle, OTOH, is with the Carroll camp.

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It's quite sad that a skater cannot reach the elite level without the big name coach and a big name ice skating center. What make it even more sad is that the highest Jane will get on the U.S. Team envelope would be the reserve team because she placed ninth. So she will not be as much funding as Katy, Kimmie, and Danelle. Even though, IMO, she is the one who most deserves it.

Another thread that interests me (lol)...

First off, before I begin, just want to reiterate once again that the following are solely just my opinions - from a Fan of the sport - no more, no less. Don't have any i.d. and/or credentials as a skater, coach, insider, etc. Nuthin' but observations, man.

That said, here goes:

Michelle Kwan - nothing really need be said....she knows what she has to do in order to keep up with the rest of the World as far as the technical aspect goes.....and on that note, I hope (& expect) to see her do just that for the next two seasons leading up to the Big One.

Sasha Cohen - ditto, but would like to add that someone like her can win the SP without a 3/3 (& a flutz) b/c she excels in so many other things (it really is NOT just all about the jumps) ~ carriage to the nth degree, ditto for posture, perfect air position, lovely toepoint (only one that really does so), extension that goes above & beyond, spring into her jumps (especially her 2A), exquisite spirals, innovative/creative super fast spins with phenomenal positions, quick footwork, verve/passion/fire/attack, very good speed, split jumps that are out-of-this-world, and last but not least she knows how to put on a performance!

Jennifer Kirk - she's a "fighter", despite what happened @ this past Worlds.......anything's possible with Jennifer, as she has shown by coming back from a devastating hip injury & subsequent surgery........but IMHO she has to make a decision about either being a single skater or a pair skater; can't do both until after the Olympics (JMHO). Finally, what also holds her in good stead is the fact that she has done 3/3s before in her career (& was consistent before the hip injury/surgery). Because it has been my observation that if a skater hasn't mastered a 3/3 combo. by the time s/he is 20, it won't happen.

Amber Corwin - ditto, another "fighter".......as proven by her long career in the sport.......and the fact that she has actually continued to improve, with it culminating in her best finish @ US Nationals to date (i.e. 4th in 2004)! Also, medalled @ 2004 4CC. And, as with Jennifer Kirk, she too has successfully landed numerous 3/3s before in her career, and still continues to do so. Thus, I believe her when I read that she will work on adding another 3/3 to her repertoire this coming summer (per latest Golden Skate article). GOOOOOO AMBER! I believe (no lie); will be crossing my fingers for you to make your first ever Olympic Team and/or World Team!

Angela Nikodinov - there's still hope yet burning.......it's yours if you want it.......just have to reach out & grab it. Just as you did when you won that bronze medal @ 2001 US Nationals with a phenomenal performance (two thumbs way up). Good Luck, Angela! ^)

A-P McDonough - ditto, except would replace 2001 US Nationals with a couple of those gorgeous performances that you displayed with 7 triples. Obviously, you have it in you to skate great! Good Luck, A-P! ^)

Bebe Liang - little spitfire full of gusto, as you proved with your debut on the Sr. Grand Prix in 2003. If your hip holds up, I expect mighty more big things in the future from you. Goooo, Bebe! ^D

Yebin Mok - technically the best of ALL the US women IMHO (pure technique on everything from speed to flow to edges; smooth as silk).........with gorgeous jumps with height & power to spare (not to mention the only one that can do a pure lutz)........and also to-die-for spins that I, personally, consider on par with Sasha Cohen's (no lie; that l-a-y-back also equals Shizuka Arakawa's & Yukina Ota's; exquisite). Furthermore, this woman has very good presentation to boot (straight back, long elegant limbs, lovely carriage, gentleness about her skating). Just needs to put it all together & have that once-in-a-lifetime performance (or two). GOOOO YEBIN! ^D

Kimmie Meissner - her skating reminds me of an all-time favorite of mine ~ Sarah Hughes ~ same long-limbed elegant body & able to do 3/3s. However, by the time Sarah was Kimmie's age, her body was almost done maturing. It remains to be seen when Kimmie will begin & end this maturation process. Also, it will help her with adding strength & power to her skating (as it did for Sarah). JMHO. For now, she's question mark...

Katy Taylor - ditto, except she reminds me of Tara Lipinski, without the speed & 3/3s.

Danielle Kahle - ditto, except she reminds me exactly of Tara Lipinski, without the consistency. ***Note: odd, the only young up-and-comer that reminds me of Tara Lipinski in every way/shape/form does NOT come from the US, rather Canada (aka Cynthia Phaneuf). JMHO.***

Here's to looking forward to the DOGFIGHT @ US Nationals in the next two years (leading up to the Big One), especially amongst those fighting for the 3rd spot! In fact, I think that 3rd position will be even more exciting to watch then the Top 2 (no lie). May the best "figher" win! Let the Games Begin!

***Note: my hope is that we fans will be treated to a competition like @ 2001 Worlds - haven't seen anything to equal that yet - ALL the Top 6 landing 7 triples (with 5 out of 7 landing one 3/3; Irina did go for two though). That's the best type of competiton in fact ~ when everybody skates their best ~ and you win!***

Peace & Love, Nadine

"The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not to win but to take part, just as the most important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well." - The Athlete's Creed

Nadine, great analysis! I agree with everything you said, especially on Ye Bin Mok having the best technique and presentation skills on par with both Kwan and Cohen. Actually Mok is whom Meissner reminds me of the most out of all the US ladies, from buillt to presentation. Kimmie has impacable posture and carriage, and just doesn't have that awkwardness in her movement as most 14 year olds would have. But of course, Kimmie still has some work to do before she reaches Ye Bin's level.

nymkfan51 said:

This is a very interesting question, but before I give my opinion, I need to ask a question as well.
I am confused about the eligibility of Kahle, Meissner and Taylor. I thought they were too young for 2005 Worlds ... does that then mean they would not be old enough for Turino too?

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I believe the exception to the age rule is if they medaled at the world junior championships they were eligible to go, which would hold true for Kimmie and Katy.