Official agenda of the upcoming ISU Congress | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Official agenda of the upcoming ISU Congress

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Well maybe you could read the document and get some more explanations. I wrote what i understood in general but it wasn't really that clear to me. :p

If you do please tell us what you understood :)

Oh, I didn't doubt your interpretation - it's not like I expect everything the ISU does to make sense to me. ;)

But, I did as you suggested - and I couldn't even find it! And I don't even know where to look - there seem to be fifty-eleven thousand or so proposals from all kinds of countries - including pertaining to speed skating, so... Being good at reading official documents is not one of any skill sets I may happen to have, however, so this is no suprise to me. My brain casts a look at any official document, exclaims: "Hang this, I'm off!" - and promptly is gone. Alas. :)
 

FS.Addict

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
hahaha :)

In fact, i searched for it but didn't find it. Maybe i wasn't in the right part of the document, but i remember well a proposal having as a reason to make bigger differences between pairs and ice dance. I'm confused !
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Besides the elimination of anonymous judging, there are also proposals to:
1. change every free skate duration to 4 minutes (and 7 jumps instead of 8 for the men)
2. change the PCs factors so they are the same for men and ladies
3. allow only two repetitions of each double (including double axel)
4. count ChSq even if executed before the StSq
5. allow triple twist in junior pairs short program
6. up the age limit for junior pairs and ice dance (21 instead of 20 for the men)
7. EDIT : can't find the proposal anymore, i'm confused... maybe it didn't understand the right thing !
8. count a triple that is repeated but not combined as a jump executed alone and just give 70% of the base value, instead of counting it as a sequence
9. remove the choreographic sequence of the pairs free program
10. give 30 seconds and not 60 seconds for the skater to take his starting position (but 60 seconds for the first skater of the flight)

(These are the ones i remember and that i found more interesting ; i read it very quickly)
Big NO to 1, 2, 5.
Not sure about 3 (yes for double axel, but it shouldn't be done for 2T and 2Lo)
Big YES to 4 and 6
I still can't see the point of reducing the value of a triple jump if it is executed twice alone: the skater loses the points of the combo, but that shouldn't affect the jump itself for me... It should be marked 3x+COMBO making it count as a "not executed combination" or something like that but without affecting the score of that jump
Don't really care about 9 and 10: ChSq in Pairs is often boring and awkward, so yes it could be good to remove it, but it doesn't really change a lot... The same for the time allowed to take the starting position: 1 minute is really a lot, but it doesn't really make any difference since most skaters use 20-30 seconds only.
And... isn't there enough difference between Ice Dance and Pairs? :laugh::slink:
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Im going to repeat this again. If thry want to make pairs and ice dance different, get rid of the dance spin!!
It saves 15 seconds that are could be used for actual dancing!
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Im going to repeat this again. If thry want to make pairs and ice dance different, get rid of the dance spin!!
It saves 15 seconds that are could be used for actual dancing!
:thumbsup: This is actually a good idea, but I would like even more if it became a ChSpin, I think that without having to worry about levels a lot of skaters would come up with interesting ideas!
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Im going to repeat this again. If thry want to make pairs and ice dance different, get rid of the dance spin!!
It saves 15 seconds that are could be used for actual dancing!

:thumbsup:
 

skatedreamer

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Country
United-States
Indeed! But apparently the NUMBER of lifts is what will make the average viewer able to tell them apart? I'm just... confused....

Generally speaking, anything that involves counting (e.g., number of lifts) makes my brain explode. Having said that, I agree w/ Mathman that the difference between pairs & dance lifts is fairly obvious. The number of lifts doesn't matter -- what distinguishes the 2 disciplines is how the lifts are done, not how often they happen.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I have a question about anonymous judging. Is it just anonymous to us, or can a federation find out how the judges voted? (i.e. can the Korean Fed find out which judges scored Yuna a certain way?)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I have a question about anonymous judging. Is it just anonymous to us, or can a federation find out how the judges voted? (i.e. can the Korean Fed find out which judges scored Yuna a certain way?)

In principle, no, the federations do not have access to this information. The ISU does retain that information, though, for purposes of evaluating the judges, so I don't know how difficult it would be for a determined and favored federation head to obtain it.
 

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
In principle, no, the federations do not have access to this information. The ISU does retain that information, though, for purposes of evaluating the judges, so I don't know how difficult it would be for a determined and favored federation head to obtain it.

My prediction: If there's a Snowden in the ISU who is able to leak that information it would cause a whole lot of commotion...... (and possibly drive the last nail into the coffin and get figure skating kicked out of the olympics).
 

invisiblespiral

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Interesting...

Besides the elimination of anonymous judging, there are also proposals to:
1. change every free skate duration to 4 minutes (and 7 jumps instead of 8 for the men)
2. change the PCs factors so they are the same for men and ladies
3. allow only two repetitions of each double (including double axel)
4. count ChSq even if executed before the StSq
5. allow triple twist in junior pairs short program
6. up the age limit for junior pairs and ice dance (21 instead of 20 for the men)
7. EDIT : can't find the proposal anymore, i'm confused... maybe it didn't understand the right thing !
8. count a triple that is repeated but not combined as a jump executed alone and just give 70% of the base value, instead of counting it as a sequence
9. remove the choreographic sequence of the pairs free program
10. give 30 seconds and not 60 seconds for the skater to take his starting position (but 60 seconds for the first skater of the flight)

(These are the ones i remember and that i found more interesting ; i read it very quickly)

:think:

I agree with 4, 5, and 6.... and am neutral on everything else.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
change the PCs factors so they are the same for men and ladies

I so do agree with this. I never uderstood why men would get higher PCS scores than women.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Interesting...



:think:

I agree with 4, 5, and 6.... and am neutral on everything else.
I don't really agree with allowing the triple twist in Junior Pairs SP, since there are SOME couples that are capable of wonderful twists (F/M, T/M and the Chinese ones come to my mind, for example), but most aren't, so we would see a lot of disastrous attempts that is some cases could also lead to serious injuries I think, because if it was allowed in the SP much more couples would begin to attempt it earlier, when they're not technically ready... And those terrible attempts would be aesthetically awful too!!
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Yeah. The idea why the pcs are different is so that the technical and presentation scores in each discipline could be similar. It can get confusing to the audience if there was a great discrepency in points between the technical and presentation mark. That is why they factor the pcs
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
That's fine, but interpretation and other things doesn't have to be about TES does it?
Yes, but it would be strange have a 90 TES and a 70 PCS, wouldn't it? But I agree that having different factors implies that judging is relative and not absolute, which isn't exactly the basis on which IJS was created :rolleye::slink:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ Still, I think an even more important feature of the IJS is the concept of a "balanced program." In particular, the factoring maintains a balance between technical elements and the program as a whole.

Without factoring, a skater might get, let's say, 45 "absolute" points in PCS. This would correspond to straight 9.0s across the board. Here is how that would work out for a men's and a ladies' short and long programs, without factoring.

Men's SP: TES 45, PCS 45, Total 90. Program components comprise 50% of the total.

Men's LP: TES 90, PCS 45, Total 135. Program components comprise 33% of the total.

Ladies' SP: TES 36, PCS 45, Total 81. Program components comprise 56% of the total.

Ladies' LP: TES 72, PCS 45, Total 117. Program components comprise 39% of the total.

The factoring adjusts all of these "expected" ratios to 50%. This is kind of an overall expectation built into the system. Of course an individual skater might be stronger in technical elements than in presentations skills, or vice versa.
 

Chamazing

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
:biggrin: Proposal to remove Figure skating in olympics...... since no matter what changes they made as long as people who leads skating is corrupt.... the sport itself is corrupt.....
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Yes, but it would be strange have a 90 TES and a 70 PCS, wouldn't it?

Might be strange but interpretation is interpretation, whether you are a woman or a man.

But I agree that having different factors implies that judging is relative and not absolute, which isn't exactly the basis on which IJS was created :rolleye::slink:

Judging is de facto relative. As Sonia Bianchetti call it: Absolute judging: a utopian delusion.
http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writings_delusion.html
 
Top