Figure Skating-ISU president must quit before sport dies | Golden Skate

Figure Skating-ISU president must quit before sport dies

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
That is a great article!

So many great points were made. The only thing I take issue with is when people talk about CoP being all about "racking up points". Whenever that line gets used, it somehow gives validation to the results, as though the judging in competitions is fair and objective and it's just the scoring system's fault. Obviously this is not the case, and takes away from the main point that the judging is corrupt and the scoring system allows the sport to be even more corrupt than it's ever been, which was one of Mr. Wood's main arguments.

I for one applaud Tim Wood, and I hope more skaters with high standing in the figure skating community will go on record with similar feelings.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
This is the most interesting point, to me. (Ven has made the same point on these boards.)

"The general public tastes and preferences have shifted away from figure skating to the TV world of dance. This move by the public not only depletes revenues but the public has become sophisticated and knowledgeable about movement and creativity.

"Over 40 million people watch those shows. Now they go back and look at figure skating which is pre embryonic in its understanding and knowledge of movement in comparison."

If this is true, then the way back for figure skating ought to be clear. More art, less sport.
 

Hanmgse

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Very interesting indeed but I also don't think that going back to the 6.0 system would be a good idea. But definitely Cinquanta needs to go
 

HanDomi

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Figure skating is a SPORT with addition of artistry to it. It always was a SPORT, not artistic show. If someone want to watch pure artistry only then should go to watch ice dancing or exhibitions, or even better... dancing with the stars :biggrin: Really I would stop watching men competition if it would be all about artististry in future. Since I mostly watch men, all I can say about it should be athletic, powerfull... with ADDITION of artistry. It always was like that.
Here I am saying mostly about men competition. I don't have the proper knowledge to discuss about ice dancing, so maybe there are needed changes.

Many just complaining about current judging system. But I will say. It is not the system that is wrong, but the people that are using it to judge. Remove anonymus. Not that stupid idea of returning 6.0 system. What could be changed is showing information about programs for spectators that are watching it. For example information about BV for the programs for current skater etc. For me current system is clear. I can physically see how much there is diffrence in technical content stuff for example between programs of skaters

Only thing that could be repaired, is PCS. But it started to get all wrong unfortunately from Patrick Chan in my opinion, when judges started to giving him high PCS, and higher PCS, and higher than higher, and it raised to astronomical level :scowl:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Figure skating is a SPORT with addition of artistry to it. It always was a SPORT, not artistic show. If someone want to watch pure artistry only then should go to watch ice dancing or exhibitions, or even better... dancing with the stars :biggrin:

Well, the article is about the question, why has the popularity of figure skating taken a nose dive at the very time when shows like Dancing With the Stars have become popular.

Here is the problem. Suppose I fancy myself to be the world's biggest sports fan. I am looking around for a sport that me and my beer-guzzling friends can go ape over. I know! -- Figure Skating!

As a pure sport, figure skating will never complete with soccer, baseball, etc., in terms of audience appeal. To succeed, skating must emphasize what makes it different from common sports, not try to mimic them.
 

Sophie-Anna

Medalist
Joined
May 24, 2013
I'm not sure I want 6.0 system back. IMO this system is good. Some skaters get more points on PCS than they deserve, so maybe ISU should think about it. But under 6.0 system some skaters were judged unfairly too. Despite I love this sport, we still watch subjective sport and there will be always something what should be more fair...But I absolutely agree, that Cinquanta needs to go now. His new "great idea about eliminating SP"(and many other things) can't be acceptable and shows that Cinquanta is just stupid...So remove Cinquanta but DON'T returne to old system.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Figure skating shouldn't be ruled by someone who is a former speed skater. Get Speedy out!

Mixed feelings about IJS vs. 6.0. I do like how we can see protocols with IJS, and you can argue it's "fairer." But--call me crazy--I think 6.0 was more audience friendly. A holistic mark would be better for the sport's popularity, imo, though I dunno if it actually more fair to the athletes. I don't think bringing back 6.0 ordinals would be the best idea, but having everyone marked out of 10.0, for artistry and technical merit, and then adding/averaging the scores... I wouldn't be against it.

IJS certainly needs fixing, at any rate. Falls need to be punished more, for starters.

Figure skating is both art and sport. The "win through math" part can get annoying, but I definitely don't want everyone running around doing double jumps.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
What was so interesting here? I had to read it twice thinking I clearly missed something.

I learned nothing new at all nor did I see one valid solution offered really. Mr Wood borderline insults the new talents in skating calling them point getting one trick ponies. That's refreshing. The author is clearly a disgruntled post Sochi Fan with statements like

Figure skating made a swath of negative headlines at the Sochi Olympics in February when Russia's Adelina Sotnikova took a shock gold in the women's event which drew derision outside of the host nation.

The teenager was the only one of the leading trio whose free programme contained an obvious mistake - a two-footed landing from a double loop - but the nine-member judging panel declared her a winner with a personal best score just shy of defending champion Kim Yuna's world record.

Two million people have since signed a petition demanding an inquiry but Cinquanta has failed to deliver leaving Wood pessimistic about the chances of his demands being heard.

"Talk about arrogance and lack of transparency," he said of the Italian's silence.

"The judging system is so complicated and so corrupt that the viewing public has no idea of what's going on."

Talk about one sidedness. There was also a swath of positive stories too that came out around the Olympics. Yahoo sports does it again :scowl:

If skating turns into Dancing with the Stars you can count me out!!! I look to skaters for athletic ability first with artistry mixed in. Not hollywood appeal and dance moves. There is a reason people are eating :popcorn: over reports of new quads. There is a reason people all over the globe took notice of a little spinner from Russia. People want something new and exciting. That to me is what is interesting.

1)Bring back 6.0 ?? Come on.

2)Everyone agrees that Cinquanta needs to go. The story should have stopped there. The rest was pointless venting to me.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I preferred the 6.0 system and miss it but you can’t go back. The system that we have now can work without cheaters. Get rid of the cheaters and anonymous judging. Also apply the scores individually. Just because someone can jump doesn’t mean they have great skating skills or actual components that come together to be a good program (choreography).
 

caelum

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
I resent COP only because it pretends to be objective, whereas it's just the same old arbitrary judging layered on top of totally made-up arbitrary point system that pretends to be "objective" (its the dishonesty of this I can't stand). I mean, why is a lutz 6.0 whereas salchow 4.2? You can't make any argument why the values are the way they are, even in relative terms. Since it's all just BS, the figure skating community should embrace it's subjectivity and go with it. I don't have much affections for 6.0 either - but the issue isn't the scoring system anyway. When the organizational structure and agents are corrupt, you can apply any rules you want and it won't make a difference. It's like with all the financial fraudsters. You can apply whatever SEC rules, federal laws etc and someone will find a way to exploit the system and corrupt it. The same goes for the judges. Only until the federations start cracking down on corrupt / idiotic judges or the system is entirely re-worked in really radical ways will we have a "fair" system.

But yes, make Speedy go away ...

Well, the article is about the question, why has the popularity of figure skating taken a nose dive at the very time when shows like Dancing With the Stars have become popular.

Here is the problem. Suppose I fancy myself to be the world's biggest sports fan. I am looking around for a sport that me and my beer-guzzling friends can go ape over. I know! -- Figure Skating!

As a pure sport, figure skating will never complete with soccer, baseball, etc., in terms of audience appeal. To succeed, skating must emphasize what makes it different from common sports, not try to mimic them.

I'd also addd that skating can't even be reduced to a sport in the usual sense because there would be no way to decide who should win in we did that. There no objective measure like number of touchdowns and its not ever comparable to other trick-based, judged sports. Look at snowboarding. I'm pretty sure a clean run with a cab double cork 1440 in a half pipe has never been done by more than 1 guy in any given competition (only like 3-4 people are capable of doing this anyway and only 2 semi-consistently). So, by default, if a guy does this trick - he wins, which is what happened at Sochi. Whereas in figure skating, pretty much all the elite women are doing 3Lz + 3T. And if you've been watching juniors, it seems the uniformity of jump content is only going to continue. How do you decide who should win if everybody is doing the same stuff? Obviously that's where all the artistry stuff comes in, including artistic aspects like musicality, effortlessness, flow on the jumps themselves.
 

skatedreamer

Medalist
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Country
United-States
Here is the problem. Suppose I fancy myself to be the world's biggest sports fan. I am looking around for a sport that me and my beer-guzzling friends can go ape over. I know! -- Figure Skating!

I love figure skating and have indulged in beer-guzzling on many occasions but putting them together doesn't quite compute for some reason. :biggrin: OTOH, still can't get excited about DWTS, not even for Meryl & Charlie...

Sandpiper -- completely agree that 6.0 was more audience-friendly but the ordinal system made the actual scores (5.8, 5.9 etc.) irrelevant b/c ultimately the ordinals were all that mattered. That was frustrating. I'm also with you re: increased penalties for falls.
 

Sandpiper

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
I'd say the "actual scores" are meaningless under COP too, considering the crazy inflation that happened in the past few years. (It even goes for TES due to GOEs being more generously awarded now--Lambiel's 4-3-2 in Torino would receive quite a few 3's today, and probably deservedly). Ultimately, I don't really care about who-scored-what as long as the placements are correct.

My main issue with 6.0 was the weird ordinal flipping that happened sometimes. Hence why I think, if we're to have a holistic scoring system that is the most audience friendly, I'd go with giving everyone two scores out of 10.0 (technical merit + presentation), eliminating highest and lowest score, then getting an average. Again, by no means is this the fairest system, but it's least confusing to the audience. And at least it'll prevent the reigning Olympic champion from skating a program with a choreographed fall. :laugh:

Eliminating anonymity will be good for IJS, but because of how difficult it is to understand for the casual viewer, it'll remain confusing. (E.g. under 6.0, you can see a judge gave 5.7/5.8. Under IJS, you'll need to comb through the GOEs and every component score from every judge--that, by itself, makes things less transparent).
 

Ven

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Btw here is the lead article on ESPN's Olympic Sports section today:

A Clean Effort

Cycling's longtime doping offenders may be gone, but new UCI chief Brian Cookson is working to eliminate corruption at every level of the sport.

http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance...cycling-chief-brian-cookson-works-clean-sport

Figure skating needs leadership that will do the same -- and back it up with sincere efforts and actions, not just words.

In stark contrast, you have Cinquanta leading the ISU, who says match fixing is a "minor violation" and his right hand man is a convicted cheat as well.
 
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