Hersh: ISU boss has driven skating toward a ditch | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Hersh: ISU boss has driven skating toward a ditch

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Never heard about doping, and how they put under the carpet the big Operacion Puerto in Spain?
http://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/sport/story/205938.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...ith-football-boxing-tennis-and-athletics.html
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2914...doctor-eufemiano-fuentes-footballs-unanswered

Anyway, I don't know about golf because I don't like the game and don't watch it, so I understand nothing about it. In Tennis though is really difficult to cheat. There is little room for interpreting a ball which went off the line and there is also the beep sound.
In football as well is more difficult than in FS but much more easy than tennis.


It's not easy to say no but to think that corporations, big sponsors etc., will "clean" this sport - that is gonna be judged by humans in anycase - it's naive at best.



No no no no no no no no no. So easy.

Drug testing would work if it were regularly enforced for everyone. That of course takes money. But it could be done. It won't eliminate the problem--there are always new drugs and new substances that can be taken to hide drugs showing up on a tox screen, but it would greatly reduce it.

But you know it is just So much easier to say no no no no no no no no.

Yawn.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
No no no no no no no no no. So easy..

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So easy right? Are you in kindergarten or what? :rolleye:

Drug testing would work if it were regularly enforced for everyone. That of course takes money. But it could be done. It won't eliminate the problem--there are always new drugs and new substances that can be taken to hide drugs showing up on a tox screen, but it would greatly reduce it.

Really? I never thought about that, it's genius. :sarcasm:
The point though was about corruption that you "never heard about". They use drugs to enhance their performance, and than they cover it because there is huge money involved by the sponsors my dear.
That is corruption, so how the sponsors are going to help the FS to clean up again? :sarcasm:

Oh I forgot, by sayin yes yes yes yes yes. :popcorn:
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
All I've heard from you is one bash after another. America, American media, 6.0, yadda yadda yadda.

So yes, right back at you my dear:

:rolleye:

Alas, there is no icon for :yawn:
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Yeah, very minor.



Oh well, of course the journalist can't criticise the networks can they? ;)

Anyway, I was speaking not only about journalist but also about ex skaters, like Button and others.
As for what they might urge, I don't know the problems that USA have. What do you think are the problems with FS in USA?
I'm not talking about popularity and TV.

For example Canada always have maintained a certain high level in all 4 disciplines, not the USA.
Why is that, and above all what can be done to fix that?
Canada has been weak a lot of the time when it comes to their top Ladies skaters. Just a couple World medals in over 40 years and usually it's at least 15-20 years between Olympic medals too.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Canada has been weak a lot of the time when it comes to their top Ladies skaters. Just a couple World medals in over 40 years and usually it's at least 15-20 years between Olympic medals too.

As I explained in a later post, I was speaking for all 4 disciplines, not just women and men. Ice Dance is rather recently for USA.
To have a certain level doesn't mean to win Olympic Medals, only. At least not imo. Having good results, placing even as top 4 or 5 at worlds, GP's or Olympics is a very good result for a movement.
They had world champions, and medalist in all 4 disciplines. Ladies are not at the very top level maybe, for now, but they did get the bronze in 2010 and Osmond is in top ten and very talented. She is young so will see, but at the moment I think we can say that they have a very good level in paris, ice dance and hope they will keep up with men (even without Chan) and ladies too.
My point was that regardless of the results, in terms gold medals, when I see the history of FS in Canada I can see they do care about all disciplines.
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
What are the odds of ending anonymous judging. Are there enough nations in the congress to pass it if the US and its allies follow as well as Russia with its eastern bloc influence...and Greece too. :)

I know that since the vice president of the ISU David Dore is a Cinquanta follower, Canada might side with keeping the system anonymous.
Who knows all we can do is sit and watch the circus that is the ISU congress unfold.
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Cinq is only a part of the problem.
He is only part of it. In saying that he oversaw all the mess that was unfolding and all he did was drag his feet or covered his ears and ignored what the people who actually cared about the sport had to say.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
An image can speak a lot more than words. Although he used Putin and Cinquanta together (just a coincidence I suppose?:sarcasm:) to show that he was perplexed. Perplexed about what? How does he knows what he's saying to him?

I'm sorry but using a picture of Putin and Cinquanta together, in an article about judges and skating going toward a ditch?
There is one obvious conclusion only.

I do agree that the US media is too American centric about skating. Not having very good skaters as they used to have is their fault, to begin with. They better start fixing that, and I see some good work with the ladies and maybe with the men too.

I do not think that not having American strong skaters is the end of FS. It's a big loss certainly, IMO, because it's a big country, big Federation with a huge tradition (at least in singles) so I think it's good for FS to have the big countries competitive, but I didn't heard or read the same "concerns" about "the end of FS" just because Russia was going downhill from 2006 till now. ;)

Just out of curiosity. Is there any article, from these big journalist and experts, where they do criticise their own country for not doing enough for their FS?

You all do know that 99.9% of the time, journalists do not write their own headlines, choose their own pictures or write their own picture captions, right? Hersch just submitted the column. Other people did the rest of that and he had no control over it.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
You all do know that 99.9% of the time, journalists do not write their own headlines, choose their own pictures or write their own picture captions, right? Hersch just submitted the column. Other people did the rest of that and he had no control over it.

I don't have an issue with Hersch. YlFan maybe have an issue with him but I don't, because I don't even know him.
I made a comment on what I saw on the newspaper in reply to Vanshilar.
It could've been Hersch or the editor, it really doesn't matter. It's about the newspaper not Hersch, at least for me.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
It's an eye-catching photograph. And the expression on President Putin's face does look like he is saying to Mr. Cinquanta, "OK, explain that to me!. :)
 

YLFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
Hes a guy a week before the Olympics went on some bizarre tirade saying the games should be moved. This is what passes for journalism in America these days.
 

breathesgelatin

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Hersh has some good articles and does some good work.

However, I will readily admit that he is extremely biased towards the US and within the US towards Chicago and Chicago-based skaters. (Which only makes sense I guess since he writes for the Chicago paper of record.)

Lately he's been annoying me with ranting about how awarding the Olympics to Rio de Janeiro was a mistake and Chicago should have them. To me, way more than Sochi even, that's a clear case of sour grapes. They're not going to pull the games away from Sochi.

Hersh seems to extremely dislike the new scoring system and Cinquanta, but I haven't seen him propose what would be a better system, or even ask skaters what they would suggest instead.

In other words, he often seems cranky, critical without offering any other solutions, and biased towards the US/Chicago. Despite those things, he manages to write some interesting pieces.
 

louisa05

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
I don't have an issue with Hersch. YlFan maybe have an issue with him but I don't, because I don't even know him.
I made a comment on what I saw on the newspaper in reply to Vanshilar.
It could've been Hersch or the editor, it really doesn't matter. It's about the newspaper not Hersch, at least for me.

I was responding to the general discussion that Hersch was at fault or making some kind of covert point with the picture. He was not as he did not make that choice. Editors don't write headlines and captions or choose pictures, either. At most papers, low level employees have that job for both the print and web versions of the paper.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
Countries with skaters who are making waves and winning titles are doing just fine in terms of the popularity of the sport. The sport is "dead" in the US b/c in the last 4 years the only Americans to stand on the world podium have been Davis/White and the Shibutanis in ice dance. It's been years since anyone else has stood on the world podium. Evan Lysacek won gold in 2009; Kimmie Meissner (gold) and Sasha Cohen (bronze) in 2006; and Ina/Zimmerman (bronze) all the way back in 2002.

You can't complain about lack of attention/popularity for the sport when the skaters aren't giving you anything to cheer for. "This is America! We're the BEST!" So naturally people aren't going to tune in to watch skaters finish 5th and 8th. This country is very finicky when it comes to sports. We want winners, not losers...and unfortunately, the majority of US skaters (by definition) are a bunch of losers. Harsh, but very true.

US figure skating has no power players other than Davis/White and it's likely they'll be retiring soon. There is potential in the US ranks...there's always potential...but potential counts for nothing if it isn't met when the time calls for it.

Blame the scoring system if you want but the reactions to the Sochi scoring speaks volumes about where this country is in terms of their involvement with the sport. So much of the figure skating world blew up at the controversy... the US public's reaction: "Wow, they say the Russian girl didn't deserve it and the judges cheated. Oh well...hey, who do you think is going to be in the NBA Playoffs next month?" Essentially, it made headline news for roughly a week but once the Olympics were over, nobody gave two farts.

People here don't care about the sport enough to demand change. Hersh and Brennan can write their articles but the fact is those articles reach a tiny niche of people...us--the ones who actually follow the sport. For everyone else, figure skating is that sport that comes around once every four years...I doubt if the average person even knows about the GP events, 4CC, Euros, etc that happen every year. It isn't a visible sport and people don't care enough to seek it out. It's just not a popular sport in the US. Maybe if one of these skaters lands on top of a world podium things will change...but even that's not a guarantee.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I was responding to the general discussion that Hersch was at fault or making some kind of covert point with the picture. He was not as he did not make that choice. Editors don't write headlines and captions or choose pictures, either. At most papers, low level employees have that job for both the print and web versions of the paper.

And actually it's pretty simple. The column is about Cinquinta. The most recent file photo they have is in Sochi. Designer puts in said photo. This discussion here on GSthat the paper was trying to send some sort of message has probably been longer than the amount of time the designer found the photo and put it on the page.
 
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pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Figure skating is not going to improve in popularity in the U.S. until the major networks start carrying competitions and not just the fluff Smuckers or whatever contrived skating shows.

After the Sochi fiasco why would anyone bother. U.S networks certainly wont.
 

uhh

Medalist
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Great post Kwanatic. The sport will regain popularity in the US when the US can produce a skater who is capable of consistantly winning World medals.

However, I would never expect it to climb back to the levels of popularity it had in the 90s. All sports and other forms of entertainment have suffered from fragmentation and declining audiences as consumers are given more and more choice. In addition to that, prior to the 1990s skating was always a niche sport. A lot combined with Tonya & Nancy and then Michelle dominating to bring more attention to it in the US media, but even then it never had the profile of a sport like baseball or basketball, and it's futile to hope that it ever will. It's so dependent on individual stars, like Michelle or Yuna that unless a country can keep producing champions consistently, there will always be peaks & troughs in the popularity of the sport in different countries as they enjoy different levels of success.

That said, I do think there are a few things that could be done in the US to help.

1. The networks need to have commentators who can explain the scoring system. Personally, I don't find IJS complicated, but if you are new to the sport you need to have someone who will point out underrotations or edge calls, explain the concept of levels and also point out things like good skating skills to help understand why certain skaters get the PCS that they do. From the youtube videos I've seen with US commentators this rarely happens. (Johnny & Tara in Sochi were a rare exception) Instead I hear commentators still, 10 years on, talking about the "new" system, saying it's hard to understand, complaining about corruption when they don't like the result instead of helping to break it down for the viewer why the scores came out the way they did. They need to understand that this kind of attitude will only damage their sport and turn off casual viewers instead of encouraging them to find out more.

2. The USFSA needs to change their idea of a marketable skater. Going into Sochi D/W were pretty much guaranteed a medal, but USFSA seemed much more interested in promoting Gracie to fit their old fashioned idea of the all american princess. Maybe that's what worked in previous decades, but I don't think it's what people want now. Part of the problem skating has in the US is that its audience is aging & the younger generations aren't coming in to fill the gap. I'm in my mid twenties, & I have a lot of friends, some based in the US, of a similar age who like skating. We're all willing to spend money on skating, to travel to competitions and shows, but only to see the skaters we like, and no one my age gives a rusty hoot about Gracie, to borrow an expression from Dick Button. She's seen as too sterile and packaged. People prefer real characters, skaters who are willing to experiment, even if they are in the end more flawed & don't get the same competitive results. People love Ashley for her modern programs and the way she carries herself as a strong young woman, Jeremy & Daisuke for their wonderful artistry, skaters like Elladj, Misha & Florent for daring to do something different. They all love ice dance, but USFSA treats dances like the ugly step sister of singles. Look at the sucess of So You Think You Can Dance to see how willing people are to embrace more contemporary choreography & different forms of dance. I'm not saying there is no room for a skater like Gracie who takes the more traditional refined "nice girl" image, she's popular with a lot of younger kids, or the super family friendly Disson shows (which I find very sterile compared to something like Art on Ice) but the powers that be need to recognise the importance of variety to reach out to a broader audience.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
The sport is "dead" in the US b/c in the last 4 years the only Americans to stand on the world podium have been Davis/White and the Shibutanis in ice dance.

I sometimes wonder if the US can ever regain the top podium spots (M&D notwithstanding). I hate saying this, but I don't know of any other way to put it: our skaters aren't disciplined enough. I don't mean that they don't train hard, but rather they are stretched thin trying to balance preparing for competition and all the extracurricular things like social media and doing sponsor events. Twenty years ago you focused on skating, won your gold medal, and only then did you go out and try to do all the glamorous events. You see the same thing with the women tennis players who achieve success early, like Maria Sharapova and Ana Ivanovic, who win big titles then have a difficult time adjusting to their fame and go long stretches until finding the right balance. Until we have a skater who is singularly focused on skating I don't think the US will have much success getting to the top of the podium.
 
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