Skaters changing citizenship and Feds | Golden Skate

Skaters changing citizenship and Feds

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
How do you feel about skaters moving to another country and skating for another federation. Is it wrong to take advantage of a federation and their support only to relocate and skate against them. What's your take? Any skaters you think should or are there any who have that you feel strongly about?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
How do you feel about skaters moving to another country and skating for another federation. Is it wrong to take advantage of a federation and their support only to relocate and skate against them. What's your take? Any skaters you think should or are there any who have that you feel strongly about?

I think freedom of the individual almost always trumps the prerogatives of regulatory organizations. Let the skaters do what they want.

However, for skaters who consider abandoning their citizenship just so they can skate for 14 minutes at the Olympics -- no, don't.
 

makaihime

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
I don't have any particularly bad feelings towards it. If there are no options (or better ones) for you available, you have to seek it out yourself otherwise you'll never accomplish anything. This apply to everyone not just to athletes. A skaters competitive career is short, don't waste it sitting still in one place hoping for a chance when there are other opportunities staring at you in the face. History's not going to remember you for your patriotism, but it'll remember you for your accomplishments. And the most important thing is for the athlete to ask themselves which is more important to them. Skating for a specific country or skating for yourself?

“If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door”. :)
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
However, for skaters who consider abandoning their citizenship just so they can skate for 14 minutes at the Olympics -- no, don't.

Yes, that's my take as well. I think the key for me is whether they have contributed to the country/federation regardless of where they physically live or their ethnicity. Tanith Belbin, for example, help raise the profile of U.S. Ice Dance by switching from Canada to the U.S. to skate for Ben Agosto.

Other times, it's also a matter of necessity. After his treatment by the Korean Skating Federation, Viktor Ahn (speed skater) had to switch federations if he wanted to compete. So therefore he ended up winning gold for Russia. I think many pair/ice dance skaters fall in this category as well.
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Personally I think if your federation doesn't do any thing good for you (like blocking your chances because of politicking reason) you should have just changed the fed and the citizenship, cause it's your life and future.

People have seen what happened to Viktor Ahn. KSF didn't treat him well at all, so who can blame him for switching citizenship?

Same for Aliona Savchenko, I suppose it's pretty bad with the Ukraine fed. With the current situation of that country. She is a great skater, and she deserved all the respect for her accomplishments.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
Thank you Mathman,Makaihime, and Mrs. P : ITA. Well said:yes:

Anna P. could have a very long career if she went to Ukraine. It isn't ideal now for obvious reasons but it should be on her radar if things improve there. She could out skate about anyone in the world and get stuck on Russia's back burner or worse ...passed over for new talent which we all know is going to be nipping at her heels.
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
But can the Ukraine Fed help Anna Pogo with all the funding, not to mention politiking? :scratch: and Ukraine is currently in trouble, the whole nation. I am afraid they have no mind for figure skating at the moment.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
I think freedom of the individual almost always trumps the prerogatives of regulatory organizations. Let the skaters do what they want.

However, for skaters who consider abandoning their citizenship just so they can skate for 14 minutes at the Olympics -- no, don't.

I agree with Mathman.

I have no problems with skaters changing their citizenship (although I would prefer not more than once otherwise it becomes a kind of joke) but no citizenship just for 14 minutes at the Olympics.

However, if the Fed has invested on you for many years they sure do have a say and I think it's right.


Anna P. could have a very long career if she went to Ukraine. It isn't ideal now for obvious reasons but it should be on her radar if things improve there. She could out skate about anyone in the world and get stuck on Russia's back burner or worse ...passed over for new talent which we all know is going to be nipping at her heels.

Ukraine can't help their athletes, never did tbh. They had good results when they were still part of the URSS.
Anyway, I think if Anna will continues to skate well she will have her chances. Politicking is not just about "who I like most" but also "who I trust most to bring good results". The Rus Fed, as many others, are not that stupid to "kill" a skater which can do very well at international level.
After all, they did sent her at Worlds.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
However, if the Fed has invested on you for many years they sure do have a say and I think it's right.

I have a different perspective. You want to leave? Bye.

IMHO federations do not have rights, no more do governments. People have rights. I would have the same feeling for anyone who wants to leave the country for any reason. Bye. What's wrong is when a country has to build a wall to keep the people in. :yes:
 

DianaSelene

Medalist
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Pogorilaya has already said in an interview a few weeks ago that she definitely has no intention of skating for Ukraine, she will only skate for Russia.
 

breathesgelatin

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Personally, I don't have a big problem if skaters change citizenship (especially in pairs or dance), although it would seem shortsighted in many cases if that meant they had to give up their initial citizenship. I can also find it presumptuous if a skater seems to feel entitled to have another country grant them citizenship. It is a delicate situation that skaters should enter into with realistic expectations.

Another factor, that I haven't seen so much in figure skating, but moreso in other sports, is third or fourth tier athletes from large countries going to very very small countries to compete. Sometimes this bothers me, because it almost seems a form of colonialism or something - especially if the athletes expect said country to financially support them. I don't know, something seems politically incorrect about that to me somehow...
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
I have a different perspective. You want to leave? Bye.

IMHO federations do not have rights, no more do governments. People have rights. I would have the same feeling for anyone who wants to leave the country for any reason. Bye. What's wrong is when a country has to build a wall to keep the people in. :yes:

I'm sorry but if I put money on your training, coaching, costumes, etc.etc.etc. I do have a say.
So if you want to leave, yes bye, but you give those money back, and still the Fed is the losing part here.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I'm sorry but if I put money on your training, coaching, costumes, etc.etc.etc. I do have a say.
So if you want to leave, yes bye, but you give those money back, and still the Fed is the losing part here.

I think this is a slippery slope. We paid for your training so now we own you. This is the argument that Iron Curtain countries used in the cold war to justify, for instance, the Berlin Wall. We gave you a state-paid-for education, so now we will not permit you to leave and take that investment out of the country. We will, in fact, shoot you if you try to leave.

I think the right attitude is, the federation places the skater in a funding envelope for 2014 and gets the benefit of that skater's success that season. Next season, we start with a fresh slate. If you want to leave, good bye and good luck.

♪ Got along without you before I met you, gonna get along without you now. ♫ :)
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
In most cases, a skater or other athlete, does not actually change or abandon his/her citizenship but is just taking advantage of dual citizenships, existing or acquiring for career purposes. Usually that is because of some tie s/he has with another country. The tie with the original nation remains, with or without official citizenship. To me, an affection for and contribution to a society, any society including the global community, is more meaningful than nationalism.

Also, in most cases, a skater would change the country s/he skates for only because of limited or non existing opportunities for international competitions. The switch may just help foster the sport in another country, spreading its popularity and developing a new talent pool.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
1 thing that annoys me (though I don't how much this applies to skaters) is these athletes that represent a country, they weren't born and don't live there. When they were doing the opening ceremony this year and going through the athletes, they had 1 like that.

I see the benefit for the skaters though - look at Russian ladies, where it's going to be crazy difficult to go to things like Euro's, World's and Olympics for at least the foreseeable future. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some of the ladies going to different countries. And like some other people have said, I can't really fault the skater for chasing after greener pastures.

If a skater goes to a different country for whatever reason, lack of funding, competitive level or for a partner (pairs/ice dancing), we can obviously see where it benefits the skater, does it really help the 'new' country's figure skating community? Like it really make it more popular where more kids are going into skating?
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
I think this is a slippery slope. We paid for your training so now we own you. This is the argument that Iron Curtain countries used in the cold war to justify, for instance, the Berlin Wall. We gave you a state-paid-for education, so now we will not permit you to leave and take that investment out of the country. We will, in fact, shoot you if you try to leave.

First of all I think this has nothing to do with skating and if I'm not mistaken Fed's from other countries, which were not part of the Iron Curtain but the "silk curtain" have the same attitude.
This is not about the right for education, health or food. So let's not exaggerate here, and just for info. Berlin Wall, and the eastern block was not about: "We gave you a state-paid-for education, so now we will not permit you to leave and take that investment out of the country."

Back to reality. I didn't said "We paid for your training so now we own you" but that the Fed should have a say.
I personally don't have any problem if a skater wants to leave, but I do understand also that it's not a thing that you can so easily define as black or white.
In football for example you can't switch nationalities as many times as you like, and they're not even paid by their Fed.
 

Amei

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
In football for example you can't switch nationalities as many times as you like, and they're not even paid by their Fed.

While I don't know much about football/soccer -They have far more moments/opportunities in the spotlight, to make a name for themselves and make money via a huge contract with a team or through sponsorship deals then figure skating does.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
While I don't know much about football/soccer -They have far more moments/opportunities in the spotlight, to make a name for themselves and make money via a huge contract with a team or through sponsorship deals then figure skating does.

Yes, but a WC is huge. Even bigger than the Olympics and there are many talented players who never had a chance to play and show themselves. For them is a big thing, so if we are making this discussion a matter of "rights", the moments&opportunities in the spotlight that a football player might (or might not, players from Africa especially have the WC mostly to show and be known) have is irrelevant.

Anyway, as I said I have no problems regarding nationalities and patriotism thing. I don't care much about that tbh, and I don't think that's an issue for Fed's in general as well, but I do believe that it's not such an easy thing.
I think both skaters involved and their Fed's can reach a middle ground on this issue, based on their result, opportunities and other factors that might be involved.
 

breathesgelatin

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
In most cases, a skater or other athlete, does not actually change or abandon his/her citizenship but is just taking advantage of dual citizenships, existing or acquiring for career purposes. Usually that is because of some tie s/he has with another country. The tie with the original nation remains, with or without official citizenship. To me, an affection for and contribution to a society, any society including the global community, is more meaningful than nationalism.

Also, in most cases, a skater would change the country s/he skates for only because of limited or non existing opportunities for international competitions. The switch may just help foster the sport in another country, spreading its popularity and developing a new talent pool.

I agree with you in that I do not think nationalism is a very healthy thing. And you're correct in most cases 'changing' really just means 'obtaining dual citizenship.' I do have concerns for any skater who actually must rescind their original citizenship in order to skate for a different country - I would worry they have not considered all the consequences over the course of their lifetime. Of course, most countries do not require that the athlete give up their original citizenship.

1 thing that annoys me (though I don't how much this applies to skaters) is these athletes that represent a country, they weren't born and don't live there. When they were doing the opening ceremony this year and going through the athletes, they had 1 like that.

Yes, I get frustrated with people who seem to capitalize on a small nation for 15 minutes of fame. I don't see this much in skating but it happens in other sports. For example:

http://deadspin.com/dominicas-fake-ski-team-scammed-the-olympics-and-the-p-1529973935
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
...just for info. Berlin Wall, and the eastern block was not about: "We gave you a state-paid-for education, so now we will not permit you to leave and take that investment out of the country."
What exactly was the rationale for building walls to keep the people in? Why not just let everyone defect who wanted to, good riddance?

Same with figure skaters. You want to go, please go. Now. Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya. :yes:
 
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