Kiira Korpi ready for comeback! | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Kiira Korpi ready for comeback!

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
a 3T-3T won be competitive for 26 year old Korpii
I see Jenni Saarin pasing Korpi, Jenni has better technical arsnal, fresh, young, promising skater for Finland

Saarinen came 13th at World Juniors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pADFbao4erY).

Her PB of 142 points was at JGP Czech skate where she fell 3 times. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3d0hloAFWY) She lacks the speed and certainly lacks the edges and skating skills Korpi has. She's still a junior though, and has a lovely 2A+3T, but other than that not much... maybe if she's lucky after Korpi retires she'll be at a level that still keeps Finland competitive in ladies, but I don't think she'll ever pass Korpi (unless Korpi lands 1 triple to Saarinen's 6 triples).
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
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United-States
Also lame. 66 points is enough to lead most competitions after the SP. You get junior skaters doing 3Z+3T, 3F, 2A scoring much less.

That's because at the junior level, PCS scores are usually in the 6s at best. That jump layout for seniors could receive scores in the 7s and 8s.

Suzuki on home ice could expect high PCS scores with a lower-value layout because she does perform her programs with great expression and grace. 66 for 3t+2t, 3f, 2a is not that outrageous.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Yeah, but as a general statement if skater A does 3Z+3T, 3F, 2A and scores high 50's, low 60's.... and a skater B does 3T+2T, 3L, 2A and scores mid-60's, there is something very wrong. Even if skater B is a superior skater in other areas. The PCS shouldn't be a safety net for when a popular skater bombs or a tool to hold back "lesser" skaters even when they do well.

You see it on the senior level as well. Skaters like Murakami and Osmond skated cleanly at Worlds last year and scored less than a technically less ambitious Kostner who had a fall.
 

skateluver

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Agree. If every skater had to meet the high standard that at least one poster seems to be using, of always being in competition for a gold medal, there would only be around five skaters in each competition! Kiira is the number-one ladies skater in Finland and has done well on the Grand Prix circuit. If Laura Lepisto could win a World bronze, why would anyone think Kiira couldn't, too?

Hmm.. Because Laura was actually a better skater and competitor than Kiira. One thing they share is that neither is very flexible which I believe makes them more injury prone. Good luck to Kiira. I only hope that judges won't reward her for lousy technical content. She is of course beautiful to watch.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
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Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Yeah, but as a general statement if skater A does 3Z+3T, 3F, 2A and scores high 50's, low 60's.... and a skater B does 3T+2T, 3L, 2A and scores mid-60's, there is something very wrong. Even if skater B is a superior skater in other areas. The PCS shouldn't be a safety net for when a popular skater bombs or a tool to hold back "lesser" skaters even when they do well.

You see it on the senior level as well. Skaters like Murakami and Osmond skated cleanly at Worlds last year and scored less than a technically less ambitious Kostner who had a fall.

Are you referring to Worlds 2013 or Worlds 2014?

Worlds 2013:

Kostner: 3z, 2a, 3f+3t, 1lo, 3t+2t, 3s+2t+2lo, 3s<<↓
Murakami: 3ze, 3lo<+2t, 3f, 3lo<, 3f^1a, 3s+2lo+2lo, 3t
Osmond: 3f+2t, 3ze, 2a+3t-so, 3s, 3f, 3t<, 2a+2t+2t

Hmmm. Maybe Kostner doesn't have the hardest tech in the world, but she doesn't flutz or lip and she did land a fully rotated 3/3, which is something neither Murakami nor Osmond was able to do.

Murakami didn't fall, but she flutzed, URd two triples and singled an axel, so her skate was not technically clean.
Osmond fell twice, so I don't see how you can say she skated cleanly.

Worlds 2014:

Kostner: 3z, 2a+2t, 3f+3t↓, 1lo, 1f, 2a, 3s+2t+1lo
Murakami: 3t+3t<, 3ze<, 3lo<, 3f<+2t, 3f, 2a<, 3s+2lo<+2lo
Osmond: 3f+2t, 2a+3t-hop, 3ze, 3s, 3f-to, 2t+2t+2t, 2a-to

Kostner had a weak FS for sure, falling on her 3/3 and singling two triples.
But Murakami landed only three triples---all the others were UR and so was her 2a, so this was not a clean skate.
Osmond's skate wasn't clean either, with a fall, a hop on the axel combo, singling the 3t in the 3-jump combo, and turnouts on the flip and the axel.


And once again, you are comparing Osmond to Kostner---if Osmond has higher tech than Kostner, she should score higher. :rolleye: As if.
 

anyanka

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
People: can we please go back to talking about Kiira here? We can move the debate on Kostner vs. Murakami vs. Osmond (although I love the analysis you got into) to another thread.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Are you referring to Worlds 2013 or Worlds 2014?

Worlds 2013:

Kostner: 3z, 2a, 3f+3t, 1lo, 3t+2t, 3s+2t+2lo, 3s<<↓
Murakami: 3ze, 3lo<+2t, 3f, 3lo<, 3f^1a, 3s+2lo+2lo, 3t
Osmond: 3f+2t, 3ze, 2a+3t-so, 3s, 3f, 3t<, 2a+2t+2t

Hmmm. Maybe Kostner doesn't have the hardest tech in the world, but she doesn't flutz or lip and she did land a fully rotated 3/3, which is something neither Murakami nor Osmond was able to do.

Murakami didn't fall, but she flutzed, URd two triples and singled an axel, so her skate was not technically clean.
Osmond fell twice, so I don't see how you can say she skated cleanly.

Worlds 2014:

Kostner: 3z, 2a+2t, 3f+3t↓, 1lo, 1f, 2a, 3s+2t+1lo
Murakami: 3t+3t<, 3ze<, 3lo<, 3f<+2t, 3f, 2a<, 3s+2lo<+2lo
Osmond: 3f+2t, 2a+3t-hop, 3ze, 3s, 3f-to, 2t+2t+2t, 2a-to

Kostner had a weak FS for sure, falling on her 3/3 and singling two triples.
But Murakami landed only three triples---all the others were UR and so was her 2a, so this was not a clean skate.
Osmond's skate wasn't clean either, with a fall, a hop on the axel combo, singling the 3t in the 3-jump combo, and turnouts on the flip and the axel.


And once again, you are comparing Osmond to Kostner---if Osmond has higher tech than Kostner, she should score higher. :rolleye: As if.

Good lord... please look at the rest of my post where I'm obviously referring to the SP, the 2013 Worlds SP in particular? :rolleye: Here, I'll link to the pdf so it's even more apparent. http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/wc2013_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

If Osmond/Murakami skates a clean SP with a 3-3, that should score higher than a SP from Kostner with a fall. I acknowledge Kostner is a superior skater in general, but she certainly didn't deserve to be sitting in 2nd after the 2013 Worlds SP (and received a personal best PCS at that). Which goes back to my earlier point that popular skaters shouldn't have the PCS cushion that allows them to make errors or do technically less-demanding programs and still be placed ahead of "lesser" skaters who go clean with strong difficulty. Unless it's the case of Korpi where she benefited from her competitors doing poorly, so even with less demanding programs and errors, it was kind of justified for her to get the results she got.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
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Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I am sure that when Kaetlyn Osmond has been skating for 12 years at the international level and has won 3 World medals and a World championship, 3 GPF medals and a GPF Championship, and 5 4CC medals and 5 4CC Championships, she will be in a position to be placed above 'lessers' even when she falls in a SP on a less-demanding program.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I am sure that when Kaetlyn Osmond has been skating for 12 years at the international level and has won 3 World medals and a World championship, 3 GPF medals and a GPF Championship, and 5 4CC medals and 5 4CC Championships, she will be in a position to be placed above 'lessers' even when she falls in a SP on a less-demanding program.

If that were the case, it wouldn't be right for Osmond to be placed above "lesser" skaters either.

Accolades shouldn't absolve you of errors and place you ahead of more deserving skaters. If the sport is to progress, skaters (regardless of experience/popularity) shouldn't be rewarded when they make major errors and be given personal bests... particularly when they've executed more technically demanding, cleaner programs in the past.

If Korpi does come back, she should win because she deserves it, and not because she's a veteran with past wins/medals.
 

chuckm

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The reality is reputation DOES count, and at 2014 Kostner had reputation and Osmond didn't. That is why it is important for Kaetlyn to skate well at every competition to build her reputation. 3- and 4- triple freeskates with multiple stepouts won't do that.

Kiira is an elegant skater with great posture and carriage, musicality and good flowout on her jumps. Most of her mistakes are doubled jumps, rarely falls, stumbles or stepouts. So even when she doesn't have the technical content, she still gets high PCS scores. She probably won't have all her jumps when she returns and she may not be in a position to win, but she will look good on the ice.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
so Kiira and Ashley will be training together. I guess she will be using last year's programs since she never got to skate them.
 

jenaj

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Aug 17, 2003
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United-States
Hmm.. Because Laura was actually a better skater and competitor than Kiira. One thing they share is that neither is very flexible which I believe makes them more injury prone. Good luck to Kiira. I only hope that judges won't reward her for lousy technical content. She is of course beautiful to watch.

I have to disagree. Laura was not a strong skater at all among the top ladies. She didn't even have a consistent 3lutz. Kiira is at least as good technically and better artistically.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
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Nov 4, 2010
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Lepisto backed into a Bronze medal at Worlds in 2010 when everyone else like Mirai bombed. I think she did like 3 or 4 double jumps to get on the podium. Not impressive.
 

Sara

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Lepisto backed into a Bronze medal at Worlds in 2010 when everyone else like Mirai bombed. I think she did like 3 or 4 double jumps to get on the podium. Not impressive.

Laura was lucky that year. Back in 2010 she was the more talented one compared to Kiira, she had better skating skills and jumps. Artistically they were at the same level I would say. Neither of them has ever been particularly strong what comes to jumps. Only Jenni Vähämaa was talented in this respect but she quit skating at age 17. Jenni Saarinen has beautiful, big jumps (last season she was injured and had a growth spurt which affected her training and results).
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Lepisto backed into a Bronze medal at Worlds in 2010 when everyone else like Mirai bombed. I think she did like 3 or 4 double jumps to get on the podium. Not impressive.

Not everyone. Phaneuf actually did superbly and probably should have won bronze but her PCS held her back. Lepisto on the other hand had PCS higher than Kostner and Ando, which allowed her to eke past them in spite of a flawed SP and. Very flawed LP. She did to Phaneuf what Kostner did to Pogo at 2014 Worlds.
 

skateluver

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Laura was lucky that year. Back in 2010 she was the more talented one compared to Kiira, she had better skating skills and jumps. Artistically they were at the same level I would say. Neither of them has ever been particularly strong what comes to jumps. Only Jenni Vähämaa was talented in this respect but she quit skating at age 17. Jenni Saarinen has beautiful, big jumps (last season she was injured and had a growth spurt which affected her training and results).

I totally agree with this. Also Laura might not have had steady Lutz but she executed it when it counted. I can't remember when I have seen Kiira doing a decent Lutz.
 

AnnaTheMusician

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
I totally agree with this. Also Laura might not have had steady Lutz but she executed it when it counted. I can't remember when I have seen Kiira doing a decent Lutz.

Many times. She just didn't have that jump in fall 2012 because of injuries (if I remember correctly). Before that she made lutz quite often. Actually flip has been more difficult to her. But she has very clean edges. She hardly ever gets 'e':s.
 

skateluver

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Many times. She just didn't have that jump in fall 2012 because of injuries (if I remember correctly). Before that she made lutz quite often. Actually flip has been more difficult to her. But she has very clean edges. She hardly ever gets 'e':s.

So.. She did a decent Lutz last time 2011/2010?? Sorry, as mentioned i can't remember it has been so long..
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Sorry for been shallow, but she is gorgeous. In a world where beauty is important, I often think that is she had the results of Caro, Yuna and Mao she will be in the cover of international magazines and endorsing products all over the world.
 
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