Americana vs. European

icenut84 · Apr 12, 2004

Joesitz said:
Sasha Cohen did a very nice job to Swan Lake without interpreting the ballet. Oksana Baiul mimicked 4 acts of Swan Lake in 4 minutes. Pick your choice.

Michelle Kwan did a very dramatic take on Tosca but did not follow the opera. Irina Slutskaya did at the last Olys and it proved her down fall with that 'headache' scene. Pick your choice.

First - if you're going to criticise someone, at least get your facts right. Oksana's Swan Lake was her SP, so it was NOT 4 minutes long. And she did more than "mimick" - a lot of people seem to think that SP was one of the best interpretations ever. Swan Lake is certainly Oksana's trademark, the routine she is most remembered for.

And Re: Tosca - how is Michelle's LP dramatic?

I love her skating but I was very disappointed with that LP. It had nothing in it. How was it remotely dramatic, apart from some of the *music* she used?
(And Irina's Tosca "proved her downfall"? Not only do lots of people think her choreography was good - I certainly think it was better than Kwan's - but it was hardly a downfall seeing as she won an Olympic silver medal and a World title with it. If that's a downfall, I'd love to see what she could do with something "good".)

:rolleye:

JMO.

euterpe · Apr 12, 2004

icenut84 said:
...Re: Tosca - how is Michelle's LP dramatic? I love her skating but I was very disappointed with that LP. It had nothing in it. How was it remotely dramatic, apart from some of the *music* she used?
(And Irina's Tosca "proved her downfall"? Not only do lots of people think her choreography was good - I certainly think it was better than Kwan's - but it was hardly a downfall seeing as she won an Olympic silver medal and a World title with it. If that's a downfall, I'd love to see what she could do with something "good".)

JMO.

I have to say I much preferred Michelle's 'abstract' "Tosca" to Irina's face-clutching, hair-pulling almost slapstick "Tosca". There were times when Irina's version was just plain comical.

thvudragon · Apr 12, 2004

Ogre Mage said:
Not necessarily true. Cohen's LP at Worlds for instance, was totally absent of choreography but if you look at the Trophee Lalique version, it was packed with inbetweens including a nice serpentine footwork section, a creative and difficult final combination spin with her arms held behind her back throughout and elements before practically every jump. The dumbing down of that program was very disappointing.

Notice that I said "almost all", not "all". Also, my words weren't literal, I was using hyperbole of course. It is in comparison with Euros ladies that you see this distinction.

On your subject of Cohen at TL, it was still pretty sparse in comparison to the Euro ladies (and herself in 2000). The SeSt doesn't count as an inbetween, it is an element. Elements do not count toward the transition mark, but only the choreography mark depending on placement.

TV

Mathman · Apr 12, 2004

Kateri said:
I have no idea what Green Acres is, but if they dance it well, I don't care. -- kat.

To anyone who is so blessed never to have seen Green Acres on TV, this was an old sitcom that, with the single and singular exception of "Gilligan's Island," must surely be the all-time goofiest show ever on American TV -- and that's saying something! It was based on the premise of a New York lawyer and his fashion-plate wife chucking it all and moving to the country to live on a farm with a bunch of stock countrified rube characters.

Sort of like Paris Hilton.

Anyway, the theme song, which Belbin and Agosto are skating to in exhibition, is just a silly little jingle. If they used that in a dance competition, even before all U.S. judges, they'd get laughed off the floor!

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP) · Apr 12, 2004

Icenut - Thanks for the correction. It was the SP in 2.5(?) minutes. Odettte and Odile thrown in to make it complete! hmmm.

And you did indeed pick your choices and that's ok with me.

Why is it that figure skating can not be an original art form I t must borrow from ballets, operas, and any other art forms it can use because it can not be a truly art form of its own?

I've seen 18 Tosca's in my life and with the best interpreters (all of whom were different). Why should I settle for a 4 minute condensed version? Tosca does triple triples!! hmmm. :laugh:

Joe

Excidra2001 · Apr 12, 2004

euterpe said:
I have to say I much preferred Michelle's 'abstract' "Tosca" to Irina's face-clutching, hair-pulling almost slapstick "Tosca". There were times when Irina's version was just plain comical.

And when was that? I have never seen people laugh at Irina's interpretation of Tosca. I think people are forgetting that Irina's Tosca was choreographed by the great Guissapa(sp) Arena, while Morosov did Michelle's tosca. I believe had Irina not used Arena, Michelle would've bene happy to go to him instead of Morosov. After all, Gussapa knows the essence of opera, atleast more then Morosov.

As I said before, Michelle's Tosca does nothing for me except the last 30s of the program where she comes alive. Other then that, I don't think it should even be compared to Irina's Tosca.

Ogre Mage · Apr 13, 2004

I initially hated Irina's Tosca but it grew on me. I also could not take all the head scratching/hair pulling at first, especially at the joke that was the 2002 GPF. The program looked better to me at the Olympics, but what sunk it there was not the choreography but Irina's wooden, slow as molasses performance. Then, at 2002 Worlds, she delivered the goods and while I am not an Irina fan, Tosca became my favorite LP from her.

Michelle is one of my favorite skaters, but Tosca is not one of my favorite LPs from her. She skated it great (except for Worlds QR) but too many MITF were recycled from Aranjuez. Aranjuez was also a rather spartan program, but it felt much fresher. It did not appear to be a redux of Scherezade. Also, some of the moves in Tosca didn't fit the music particularly well. In particular, I think the spin she did right after her 2axel didn't seem appropriate.

Ladskater · Apr 13, 2004

Shine:

B/S skated to Chaplin in 2001.

Chaplin was English and lived the rest of his life in Sweden after leaving Hollywood.

berthes ghost · Apr 13, 2004

Wasn't Maria's 02 LP music from a popular Russian TV show?

thvudragon · Apr 13, 2004

berthes ghost said:
Wasn't Maria's 02 LP music from a popular Russian TV show?

It was from a movie. I was told at one point what the film was about, but I've completely forgot, just that it's strange. Of course, the title can be translated many ways

.

A Tale of Travels
A Fairy Tale of Travels
A Tale of Wandering

Either way, I liked the program. (I think I'm the only one, lol)
TV

berthes ghost · Apr 13, 2004

Thanks. I always get it confused with the 01 Lp. "17 Moments in Spring" or something like that. Was that the one that was from a Russian TV show?

Jaana · Apr 13, 2004

Ladskater said:
Shine:

Chaplin was English and lived the rest of his life in Sweden after leaving Hollywood.

Not in Sweden, it was in Switzerland.

Marjaana

lavender · Apr 13, 2004

I don't get it. I don't think it makes a difference as long as the program is interpreted in a lovely way. No one likes Weiss's program because it's not interesting. I don't think the patriotic theme has anything to do with it.

If Paul Wylie skated to it with better choreography and his passion then I think people would love it no matter what.

icenut84 · Apr 13, 2004

thvudragon said:
It was from a movie. I was told at one point what the film was about, but I've completely forgot, just that it's strange. Of course, the title can be translated many ways .

A Tale of Travels
A Fairy Tale of Travels
A Tale of Wandering

Either way, I liked the program. (I think I'm the only one, lol)
TV

I thought it was called "Tale of a Journey", a Russian film

I didn't like that programme too much though, I didn't really like the music. I loved Maria's LP in 2001 though (beautiful), and also many of her others.

Americana vs. European

icenut84

euterpe

thvudragon

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

Excidra2001

Ogre Mage

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~

berthes ghost

thvudragon

berthes ghost

Jaana

lavender

icenut84

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