The Biellmann Spin | Page 5 | Golden Skate

The Biellmann Spin

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
Agree...I wasn't trying to be argumentative. In fact I called it a catch foot half-Biellman once to a coach and he was the first to point out that it was a full on upright Biellman. I think Sandpiper posted a video of Slutskaya Biellman spamming a program that showed her doing Biellmans out of like every spin position in one program:laugh:

Maybe it's earlier in this thread.
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Agree...I wasn't trying to be argumentative. In fact I called it a catch foot half-Biellman once to a coach and he was the first to point out that it was a full on upright Biellman. I think Sandpiper posted a video of Slutskaya Biellman spamming a program that showed her doing Biellmans out of like every spin position in one program:laugh:
Maybe it's earlier in this thread.
Yeah Irina's Biellmann was a thing to die for. She can go into Biellmann from various positions. Amazing she was, what a pity her posture...:cry:
 

DexterK

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
I love good Biellmann spins, always have. However, I often wonder if Biellmann spins are actually variations of layback spins. Honesty, the gals are'nt "laying back" once the boot is raised above the head. Zhang's Pearl spin may be an exception here- I'm aware.

Thoughts? Comments? Criticisms?
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
My understanding:

Laybacks and Biellmanns are both variations of upright spins. Layback is considered more difficult than a plain upright (e.g., scratch) spin, and Biellmann is a difficult variation.

The transition into a Biellmann often involves leaning back (or sideways) to reach for the blade. Often the entrance to the Biellmann will pass through the "haircutter" position, which is also considered a difficult variation under IJS if the foot is close enough to the head, and which may or may not qualify as a layback.

In the ladies' short program where a layback or sideways-leaning spin required (since 1988-89), there is a minimum number of revolutions in position required (8 since 1994-95).

When the IJS was introduced in 2003, it was already not uncommon (although not yet as common as it soon became) for skaters to perform layback followed by Biellmann in freeskates.

The people writing the rules decided that skaters should be allowed to get credit for the difficult variation feature that the Biellmann position represented in their short program laybacks, but only after completing the required 8 revolutions in layback and/or sideways-leaning position. I.e., you have to fulfill the basic requirement, but after that you're allowed to get extra points for doing this other upright variation that is related to but not exactly part of the layback definition.

In the freeskate, that was always allowed. If you like, think of it as an upright spin with multiple variations, and (ever since layback got a higher base value than basic upright), once the layback variation is credited the whole spin gets the base value for a layback.

As of 2003 there were a handful of skaters who could do excellent laybacks into Biellmanns. Once it became explicitly rewarded, many other skaters began to develop the skill. Starting young surely helps develop the necessary flexibility. So by now excellent Biellmanns are pretty common. And merely good, mediocre, and pretty bad ones are also common, since they do gain extra points if executed at least adequately.
 

DexterK

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Excellent and informative answer. Thank you very, very much- what a resource Golden Skate is.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
Maria Sotskova has a really nice Biellmann.

https://youtu.be/VPRAbYQJoHc?t=3m12s

To me it's just very steady. For those that cringe over flexy spins and those that harp on the labored ones it is a pretty solid spin that isn't too extreme. I like the speed of it myself.

**Actually the whole program is a bit addictive if you ask me. It's one I can just watch over and over again.
 
Last edited:

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
JuLip's variations on all her spins are so superior to the others. She should be the only one getting straight +3's. She is that much better. Mao's just look so awkward and labored and less aesthetically pleasing.
 

sabinfire

Doing the needful
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Radionova (how is her surname pronounced? Rah-dee-oh-no-va? Rah-dio-nova?)

This is one of those cases where the transliteration can be very misleading.

(Language lesson to follow, please skip if not interested.)

I'm not sure how you're pronouncing those examples above, but I assume the "-" mark denotes a syllable, in which case, neither example would be correct -- especially since there's no 'Rah' going on there. Think of the old slang of how 'rad' or cool something is. (Though true Russian pronunciation would have you rolling that 'R' like the Scottish would, and the 'r' would sound closer to the double r sound in 'error', not the kind of 'r' that makes you sound like a pirate. ;) )

The flow of Radionova should sound like 4 syllables.

Probably best just to listen to a recording: http://forvo.com/word/Радионова

The flow is so quick and fluid, you can hardly hear the "i" sound in Radionova. So if you have any trouble with this, you're probably best off pronouncing like this: Rad-yo-nah-vah. The sound of the A's at the end should almost sound like O's.
 

AsadaFanBoy

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
This is one of those cases where the transliteration can be very misleading.

(Language lesson to follow, please skip if not interested.)

I'm not sure how you're pronouncing those examples above, but I assume the "-" mark denotes a syllable, in which case, neither example would be correct -- especially since there's no 'Rah' going on there. Think of the old slang of how 'rad' or cool something is. (Though true Russian pronunciation would have you rolling that 'R' like the Scottish would, and the 'r' would sound closer to the double r sound in 'error', not the kind of 'r' that makes you sound like a pirate. ;) )

The flow of Radionova should sound like 4 syllables.

Probably best just to listen to a recording: http://forvo.com/word/Радионова

The flow is so quick and fluid, you can hardly hear the "i" sound in Radionova. So if you have any trouble with this, you're probably best off pronouncing like this: Rad-yo-nah-vah. The sound of the A's at the end should almost sound like O's.

Thank you so much! I've been wondering how it's meant to be pronounced.
 

NoNameFace

GS given name - Beatrice
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I am so not an expert of Biellmann spin position, but I very much enjoy/enjoyed - Alissa Czisny (particulary for insane speed), Lucinda Ruh (such fluidity), Elena Radionova (I enjoy her each element and the whole package so I'm kinda biased about this one :p) and Elizabet Tursynbaeva (veeery unique one, I like it!)
 

apgold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Country
United-States
I enjoy lots of the Biellmann spins - many of the current American ladies have nice ones - Mariah Bell, Hannah Miller, Ashley Wagner, Mirai Nagasu, and Gracie Gold.

Karen's is a lot like Elena R.'s spin where they are able to really stretch the leg and skate way over their head. Almost looks freakish, though when their head is tucked against the lower back.

There are some skaters whose Biellmann's are painful for me to watch - including Liza T. and Rika Hongo - I just don't think they have the flexibility to do them.

I also don't get why Yuzu does it - he's one of the few men who do them, but again looks awkward and probably painful!
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
I also don't get why Yuzu does it - he's one of the few men who do them, but again looks awkward and probably painful!
He did it because of Plushy. I also hope he will drop it but he seems to keen on it.
 

Interspectator

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
He did it because of Plushy. I also hope he will drop it but he seems to keen on it.

He could replace it with a Y-spin and it would look nicer. If you look at his Beilman this year though, it's actually better at WTT than it was in Sochi.
https://youtu.be/0Zi4HoVXAL8?t=1m54s
But it's not pretty.
I think the only guy with a really good Beilman is Micheal Christian Martinez...and that Junior Pairs skater who did the side by side Beilman with his partner. Impressive stuff.
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
He could replace it with a Y-spin and it would look nicer. If you look at his Beilman this year though, it's actually better at WTT than it was in Sochi.
https://youtu.be/0Zi4HoVXAL8?t=1m54s
But it's not pretty.
I think the only guy with a really good Beilman is Micheal Christian Martinez...and that Junior Pairs skater who did the side by side Beilman with his partner. Impressive stuff.

wonder if someone could share names / videos of the junior pair mentioned above =D
 

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
I still think the Biellmann spin is one of the ugliest, most awkward looking spin in figure skating - no matter who does it. The Y spin isn't much better IMO. Sorry - just think it's not graceful or pretty.
 

Meoima

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
He could replace it with a Y-spin and it would look nicer. If you look at his Beilman this year though, it's actually better at WTT than it was in Sochi.
https://youtu.be/0Zi4HoVXAL8?t=1m54s
But it's not pretty.
I think the only guy with a really good Beilman is Micheal Christian Martinez...and that Junior Pairs skater who did the side by side Beilman with his partner. Impressive stuff.
Shawn has great Biellmann too http://youtu.be/UH1--dPITX8
From around 1:35
 

slider11

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Never enjoyed the Bielman. I find it unattractive. Because something is difficult doesn't make it pleasing. I love a well-centered, fast scratch spin with interesting arms and a cool exit that goes with the music. I love simple but well executed spirals that just involve the skater holding his/her leg steady and high with a beautiful arch to the back and well placed arms. I miss Michelle Kwan's gorgeous "falling leaf" jump that was always perfectly timed to the music and brought such a crescendo. Oh well, dream on!
 
Top