Women and the Quad

It is funny how you say Alina is struggling this season, while her programs and jumping content are harder than the most of other ladies (apart the 3a) and she has better results than any other skater, looking at her GP, GPF and even the nationals.
Even the best (Yuzuru)is not 100 in every outing.
So people just relax, she has Olympic title and is here for us to enjoy her.
She does not have to practice the same way as in the Olympic season and win everything.
Maybe she also want to just enjoy the process, the skating, the competitions, the spectators, the other skaters and not necessary win everything. Her team loves her and supports her and is keeping her motivated and in great shape. Stop looking for issues that don't exist.

sx98423 said:

it'd be even more dramatic and messy compared to the eteri/zhenya split! if daniil and eteri are friendly enough that he tags along on vacations there would have to be a huge falling out for them to split. i'm kinda curious about how they would deal with it but i think the skaters would not survive a feud like that

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Yeah not realistic. I didn’t know they vacationed together. Maybe after a lot more experience he would seek more independence, but he seems happy where he is now in his career.

flanker said:

I don't think the motivation for new and new proposals about changing the coach have anything to do with wishing her succesful career, because there are many skaters (literally everyone who skated for a longer time) who did not medal at every (sometimes at many) competition and nobody is or was worrying about their longevity.

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Selective application of logic is a magical thing to watch this isn’t it

melgirl25 said:

Yeah not realistic. I didn’t know they vacationed together. Maybe after a lot more experience he would seek more independence, but he seems happy where he is now in his career.

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Honestly i don't see him splitting from the team any soon.
He is one of the youngest among top choreogrpahers, and one of the youngest among top coaches. There is no reason for him to adventure on his own right now, not before maybe another Olympic cycle or two, with tops of programs made for top figure skaters added to his resume.

Misha Ge and Daniil have just 1 month in age difference. Compare Daniil's choreographer career, and Misha's choreographer career, for instance, the number of medal winning choreo both made.

sunn1ly said:

It is funny how you say Alina is struggling this season, while her programs and jumping content are harder than the most of other ladies (apart the 3a) and she has better results than any other skater, looking at her GP, GPF and even the nationals.
Even the best (Yuzuru)is not 100 in every outing.
So people just relax, she has Olympic title and is here for us to enjoy her.
She does not have to practice the same way as in the Olympic season and win everything.
Maybe she also want to just enjoy the process, the skating, the competitions, the spectators, the other skaters and not necessary win everything. Her team loves her and supports her and is keeping her motivated and in great shape. Stop looking for issues that don't exist.

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Thank you so much for this post.

It's almost as if some people cannot stand that Alina is succeeding on any level because in some way it validates Eteri's coaching method which is now intolerable to them.

Forget finding anything to remotely enjoy about her skating because it's all 'overscored/underrotated/badposture/warhorses'.

I'm not saying anyone has to appreciate or enjoy skaters that don't appeal to them. Everyone cannot like everything. But if all you ever look at in a skater is what they lack, you might be missing what they have to offer.

sunn1ly said:

It is funny how you say Alina is struggling this season, while her programs and jumping content are harder than the most of other ladies (apart the 3a) and she has better results than any other skater, looking at her GP, GPF and even the nationals.
Even the best (Yuzuru)is not 100 in every outing.
So people just relax, she has Olympic title and is here for us to enjoy her.
She does not have to practice the same way as in the Olympic season and win everything.
Maybe she also want to just enjoy the process, the skating, the competitions, the spectators, the other skaters and not necessary win everything. Her team loves her and supports her and is keeping her motivated and in great shape. Stop looking for issues that don't exist.

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She had lots of teary-eyed kiss and cries... for somebody who is enjoying skating.

It is just alarming that one day it is talked how she is injured, then she skates her gala program with all the jumps (did nobody tell her "it's okay Alina, leave out at least some of the jumps). Then she skates a messy skates on national championship, looks in pain... then again skates in gala and all of sudden she is training quads? And if this massive step out was posted on social media... there were probably lots of splats that have not been posted (she looked like she was going to splat despite the harness, tbh).

VenusHalley said:

She had lots of teary-eyed kiss and cries... for somebody who is enjoying skating.

It is just alarming that one day it is talked how she is injured, then she skates her gala program with all the jumps (did nobody tell her "it's okay Alina, leave out at least some of the jumps). Then she skates a messy skates on national championship, looks in pain... then again skates in gala and all of sudden she is training quads? And if this massive step out was posted on social media... there were probably lots of splats that have not been posted (she looked like she was going to splat despite the harness, tbh).

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Truly alarmingly questionable decisions by her team, who are once again responsible for the well-being of their students, especially important because most of them are minors.

Some people may still be enamoured by the quick success from last season and are dismissive of all concerns and say everything is alright...until one day the announcement of the coaching change, which would be a shock bigger than the GPF result for them.

flanker said:

We can look e. g. at Kaetlyn Osmond. She became senior during 2012-2013 season, so five seasons till the olympic 2017-2018, but till 2016-2017 season she had practically zero succes in important international competitions. That's like four seasons. Is she considered like having succesful career or not? But I doubt there were such wild proposals of changing coaches and all, even if she didn't win a single GP medal.

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There's a lot of injuries to consider in that time frame. After winning Skate Canada in her debut season, she had injuries during the GP of 2013-2014, and broke her leg which nixxed her 2014-2015 season. She injured herself again on a fall on a spin in her return to competition at Skate Canada 2015. But, that made it that much more impressive that she got 2 GP silvers and climbed to the World silver medal the following season and a GPF bronze (and another Skate Canada win), Olympic bronze (and team gold) and World gold the season after. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaetlyn_Osmond#Competitive_highlights

Even if we don't look at the time she was sidelined by injury, her career would be considered pretty successful.

All this false concern......disgusting.

VenusHalley said:

She had lots of teary-eyed kiss and cries... for somebody who is enjoying skating.

It is just alarming that one day it is talked how she is injured, then she skates her gala program with all the jumps (did nobody tell her "it's okay Alina, leave out at least some of the jumps). Then she skates a messy skates on national championship, looks in pain... then again skates in gala and all of sudden she is training quads? And if this massive step out was posted on social media... there were probably lots of splats that have not been posted (she looked like she was going to splat despite the harness, tbh).

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I both agree and disagree with this post.

About the teary-eyed... Alina seems like a more sensitive and shy girl, I think she takes things more to heart and shows negative emotions more easily. Alina just appears to me to have this kind of character and she was already looking very, very sad when she failed last season, this didn‘t only appear this year. I don‘t think she doesn‘t enjoy skating or is necessarily unhappy and I don‘t think we can judge solely from competitions where nerves are running high and everyone responds differently to pressure.

However, I do agree with the rest of what you wrote because it clearly seems strange. I’m trying to look at it with logic but I simply can’t find any. I know many say she had these tapes on her knees already last year and that‘s definitely true but if we look at that spiral in her choreo sequence at Nationals and how she dropped it after one second, looking as if she was in pain... What is going on there? She always looked like she’s having fun in the gala, both at GPF and Nationals despite being injured at the first competition and looking as if she was in great pain in the latter. If it was just “a bad day“ why does she look as if something hurt her? She could have easily skipped Nationals and prepared for Euros.

She is human and is allowed to have a rough skate. That doesn‘t mean she is done. But that‘s not what I‘m getting at all. I‘m just confused by this whole injured, then suddenly not, then fit enough to do quads thing that‘s going on, like you. The quad was certainly a PR move, nothing more, nothing less. They put it on social media to answer any questions about her health after Nationals. I doubt they even trained it seriously. It was probably more like: ”You thought she is injured? Well, foolish you, she‘s doing QUADS now!“

I am more than willing to give Alina time. I really like her and she seems like a dedicated yet sweet girl who is immensely talented at the same time. I‘m just worried that it‘s her team who doesn’t want to give her time or simply doesn’t know how to because it doesn’t fit into their training plan. I mean, why else would they have given her such difficult and transitions filled programs when she’s going through growing pains and puberty instead of telling her: “Okay, you‘ve had such a hard season last year and this is a four year process... let‘s take it a bit easier until you‘ve adjusted to your new body.“ It would have been completely normal. She could still have been competitive and won her GP medals. She still would have easily been the best Russian lady this year. But she might not have looked as stressed out and in pain as she is now.

Yes, juniors are moving up next year. And so what? She‘s already won the biggest prize there is. So, who cares if they surpass her for a season or two? She doesn‘t have to medal in every competition she enters, she doesn‘t even have to enter every competition! She could have sat out Nationals and worked on things quietly and in peace and improve her skating and jumps while the others fight there. She is the OGM, why not let her breath for a change? She has won everything already, yet her team drives her as if it was the Olympic season. She would have been on the team easily anyway. To me it looks like they are trying to force something when it doesn‘t need to be like this. You can be a top competitor and still listen to your body. And maybe some will say: “But Alina wants this herself! She would never have wanted to skip Nationals!“ Well, true. She is a fierce competitor and an athlete after all. But that‘s what coaches are there for and if not them, then the federation. She‘s their best bet for a gold at Worlds this year, they had better look out for her!

I wish I could just wait and trust in the process. But I have unfortunately seen too many things that aren‘t explainable and I‘m now sceptical.

But of course I truly wish Alina all the best. I‘d really like to be wrong, believe me. I know “I, with Zhenya’s avatar“ will be titled a hater now but I frankly do not care about that. I‘m simply worried and confused and I just can‘t see any reasoning in the decisions of her team so far. I hope she is fine and I wish her all the best at Euros regardless, though.

BillNeal said:

Truly alarmingly questionable decisions by her team, who are once again responsible for the well-being of their students, especially important because most of them are minors.

Some people may still be enamoured by the quick success from last season and are dismissive of all concerns and say everything is alright...until one day the announcement of the coaching change, which would be a shock bigger than the GPF result for them.

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It wouldn't shock me at all. Things change in an instant. Davis & White and Tessa & Scott trained together with Marina Zueva for years. It was all fine until one day it wasn't. Every situation is different. Sometimes you just need a change in your life.

I've read articles (via Google translate) that mentioned the possibility of Alina being the offered the opportunity to relocate to Kazan in Tatarstan and skate there. Her father coaches in Kazan and her mother and sister live there.

I don't see that happening anytime soon. I doubt Kazan has a coaching situation in place that could replicate the attention and expertise she is currently receiving.

But I also know that it is a dream of Alina's to live with her parents again. And having already won the top prize there is to win, her priorities might change in the seasons to come.

Nice to see a thread that hasn't deviated from topic

Sk8rBoii said:

Nice to see a thread that hasn't deviated from topic

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Yes, it‘s kind of refreshing, isn‘t it?

BillNeal said:

Some people may still be enamoured by the quick success from last season and are dismissive of all concerns and say everything is alright.

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No one says or thinks that everything is alright. It's you who are talking as if everything is bad and she's done.

Sk8rBoii said:

Nice to see a thread that hasn't deviated from topic

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Except every time I see a bump in this thread my selfish eagerness wants to see new Insta vids of Trusova/Shcherbakova/etc. landing new quads.

yume said:

I don't think he has enough skills in jumps to be the main coach of a skater of that caliber and who has those issues.

Honestly i don't know who can do a better work with her tham team Tutberidze if she leaves right now.

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Better work with her is subjective. Better programs? Most definitely. But better competitiveness, that is hard to find outside of Tutberidze's camp... unless she goes to Mie Hamada or something, which would be the gag of the century more than Evgenia going to TCC.

Fluture said:

I wish I could just wait and trust in the process. But I have unfortunately seen too many things that aren‘t explainable and I‘m now sceptical.

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Well it's good that you've realized something's off. Better than to remain in denial. When she debuted Daniil's tragic choreography in the summer, things already looked super off to some members. Then, apparently the same people who are pointing fingers, once again declared her untouchable because of her propped up scores at a 'B' competition, despite the noticeable uncalled URs. It took until GPF for at least some fans to open their eyes up a little. I think this random quad training by her team should start raising more alarm bells about their priorities but from the responses of others, apparently not.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Better work with her is subjective.

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I don't see how.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Better programs? Most definitely.

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Not necessarily. I have a few examples in mind.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

But better competitiveness, that is hard to find outside of Tutberidze's camp... unless she goes to Mie Hamada or something, which would be the gag of the century more than Evgenia going to TCC.

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Now that would be interesting.

yume said:

I don't see how.

Not necessarily. I have a few examples in mind.


Now that would be interesting.

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"Better" is subjective and can include a variety of criteria is what I was saying. And the point that there are several choreographers who can do better (IMO) than what Eteri's camp has given Alina. They might not pack it with as many transitions, but the quality of meaningful choreography can be improved. Because Alina can't do the impressive 7 jumping passes in the second half that DQ had, she now needs to impress more in the actual program content. Her PCS is already brought down to earth and she needs to bring it up again at Euros. Nice to see she might be training a quad flip for next season or later though!

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

"Better" is subjective and can include a variety of criteria is what I was saying.

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Well, i assume that in this case better can find a way to be non-subjective. The main flaws that people like to point:
- OMG what a bad posture!
- OMG she's the slowest skater in the field!
- She underrotate all her jumps!
- She's so not consistent!
If she goes to another coach and suddendly gets the posture of Miyahara, the skating skills of Kostner, the jump quality of Tuktamysheva, the consistency of last season Tarusina (who didn't make a single mistake in entire season), i doubt that people won't say that this coach did a better job.