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- Dec 18, 2017
So I forgot Japan Open is only FS, so even more excited now!
Women and the Quad
- Thread starter gsk8
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- Feb 18, 2019
"quad quads" omg I love it! And yay she did it!!!! Even with the slight landing error, that 4S was insane, and I'm so glad its back! And a backloaded quad! Too bad its not an official ISU competition or she could've gotten more official records. But I'm sure she'll go for it soon!
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- Aug 11, 2018
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Nathan once had 6 Quads in his layout and landed that layout successfully
OP was saying that they cannot skate SASHA’s layout not that they couldn’t do quads. Neither of them do 3Lz-3Lo so it’s a valid saying.
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- Mar 21, 2018
Naw, you’re giving too much credit. They’re being dead serious. In the same way that Rousey will get knocked the hell out if she were ever to step in the ring with Holyfield, Trusova won’t have a lick of a chance against the top men. Not only because of a lack of a 3A but because her quads will now be held to the same standards as the men’s. And let’s keep it real: those quads will start getting carrots. I can just imagine the points she’ll get on her 4Lz if she were to skate directly after Boyang Jin.
The technical panel ain’t blind. The ladies that do quads aren’t getting called out because quads are new. You have to mess up the first pancake, so to speak. As more women start to do them and the technique improves, the leniency will go away. Quads will look closer to the men in about 5-10 years. At least I hope so. For now, though, I’m just enjoying the long overdue rise in technical difficulty in ladies without kidding myself that these women can skate on even terms with the men.
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- Mar 15, 2018
It is because Nathan and Yuru dont really need it, especially with the 3 axel in play.
Actually the men dont really need that combo as it is not worth it (risk/reward) given the more requirements they need for their layout.
That is why you dont see that combo in men actually (only Junwa does it as it is easier for him but that was just last year).
Which quads will get carrots? Her sal and toe are not far from men's..
And there is only a limited number of top men who have textbook quads anyways. I.e Nathan, Yuzuru Boyang
Her quad lutz isn't worse than Zhou and we have seen the GOE he gets.. so
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- Apr 14, 2019
Why is Shoma even out on the ice? It's time for him to go dancing:сторона:
There's not much I would change about the marks for Sasha on TES, tbh, aside from perhaps calling a not-so-great takeoff on her 4Lz, but the jumps looked fairly rotated to me.
As for comparing Sasha to Boyang, well, as we all know, FS scoring was never consistent anyway. Of course a clean 4Lz from Boyang (GOE +4?) should trump a clean 4Lz from Sasha (GOE +2 at most because takeoff), but to be fair, Boyang's 4Lz consistency has taken a hit recently.
As for comparing Sasha to Boyang, well, as we all know, FS scoring was never consistent anyway. Of course a clean 4Lz from Boyang (GOE +4?) should trump a clean 4Lz from Sasha (GOE +2 at most because takeoff), but to be fair, Boyang's 4Lz consistency has taken a hit recently.
I can't believe Sasha just keeps besting herself. So nice to see that 4S back in competition after a year and a half. I see some criticism on her 4Lz here, IMO it was the best quad she did today, it seems to have gotten very tight and consistent.
My prediction for Sasha, whether or not I think it is a good idea, is that she will want to do a 4T combo as the second jump. She's got that 4T down pat, I could see her adding in a 4T+4T to wow everyone next season.
My prediction for Sasha, whether or not I think it is a good idea, is that she will want to do a 4T combo as the second jump. She's got that 4T down pat, I could see her adding in a 4T+4T to wow everyone next season.
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- Jan 5, 2019
Don't know about that next year prospect. Aleksandra is still mostly pre-pubescent in her physical appearance, and being a 'muscular stick insect' (no denigration intended at all, she is just ideally predisposed) gives her a huge physical advantage over any girl 'with curves'. Quads take a huge lot of effort and concentration, and I doubt she'll be able to maintain quad quads in her program for long. 2 kgs weight increase over puberty is like 5% of her nett bodyweight (assuming 40 kgs now), and girls turning into women don't gain muscle mass.
So if she wants to set some more World Records in TES and total score, she'd better do these in 2019/20 season, because inevitably, those physical changes will come. We'll have to wait and see what influence the Tutberidze Effect will have on Aleksandra mid term in her career.
First and most important of all, she has to stay injury free, so perhaps lowering difficulty or just trying to find the optimal distribution of ultra-si elements are in her best interest. A triksel wouldn't go amis, but with three quads, or one single and two quads in combination, there is no real need of adding this element which still seems to elude her.
Layout-wise, I don't know how that helps her. Sample layout:
4T-4T
4S
4Lz
2A
3Lz-Eu-3S
3Lz-Lo
3F
compared to
4S
4Lz
4T-3T
2A
4T
3Lz-Lo
3Lz-Eu-3S
The net result is to trade a 3T for a 3F. Is that worth it? Although, this layout might be
4T-4T
4S
4Lz
2A
3Lz-3T-3Lo (or 3Lz-3Lo-3T, whatever's easier for her)
3F-3T
3S
which trades a 3Lz and a Eu for a 3S and a 3F.
I reckon Sasha/Eteri might have something like this in mind for Beijing:
4T-4T
4S
4Lz
4F
3A
3Lz-3T-3Lo (or 3Lz-3Lo-3T, whatever's easier for her)
3F-3T
I can't see anyone in the world getting close to her if she can land that.
Tbh I wasn't saying it about layouts or benefits or anything, more just Sasha wanting to do what can't be done. Idk if she will actually do it... maybe only try it in practice. Also though, if she did do it in competition, I would assume it was so she could still do 4 quad jumping passes like your last layout. Anything else would be pointless like you said. I also don't think she could warm up 4 quads (and a 3A at that... that's overkill for anyone), if she was to compete with a 4t+4t, I think she would repeat the 4lutz. Also if she was able to get a 3A, I think she would do that in place of a 4S because then she could eliminate the 2A completely (4T+4T, 4Lz+3T, 3A, 3Lz, 4Lz, 3Lz+3Lo+3T, 3F maybe). I also think we will see the 4F sometime this season, maybe replacing the 4S sometimes, idk but she will want to show that off too and be the first to land it.
We'll have to see, but she's done what no other has done before. What about Paula Radcliffe?
The main problem injury to due to the wear and tear of competition and training all the way up to the Olympics.
With how much PCS Alina was able to get, Sasha needs all the tech she can get.
- Joined
- May 28, 2019
Alina got 0.07 more than she got at WC'19; she's at the same level as she finished last season.
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- Nov 19, 2017
Enlighten us and point out any carrot on quads in her last skate you can find. Here is 60fps video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XExl0S_vcmY
Even Shin Amano known as "carrots demon tech controller" wasn't able to find any except on loop combo
She would get more than he, of course
Not because of quality - but because Jin almost never landing 4Lz cleanly. That's the thing - whether ladies quads are better or worse - you can argue all you want - but ladies jumps are cleanier, they land and rotate them more often, and their spins are better too. All in all it allows top ladies with only triples getting more scores than many quadsters among men are able to - and that with women PCS multiplier. Moreover it allows to turn working quad in real advantage in TES score instead of replacement of failed triples - as more often than not are occurring in men skating. Therefore I wouldn't be so sure that Trusova would lose to top men in the same competition.That said, as Japan Open showed - 4 quads layout is not gonna bring her substantial advantage in points. I think fourth quad is not worthy the risk as it is replacing 3F and not 2A. I believe with 3 quads layout she would get more points, tbh. She wouldn't be so tired - which would allowed her to avoid UR and get better GOEs on jumps. Of course, part of the blame here lies on stingy judges who decided to sabotage her GOEs on huge clean quads in attempt to allow OC keep the face. Still, without 3A 4th quad is not gonna bring her much help.
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- Feb 13, 2018
This would be in invalid layout according to the current ISU rules. Only one repeated jump in a FS can be a quad, otherwise I bet the multi-quad capable men would be repeating quads already. So she can't do two 4T and two 4Lz (plus two 3Lz and two 3T?). That's Zayak city there unless they change the rules.
Via the 2019/2020 handbook:
Yes of course, how could I forget that. Well I can't say that I know what she will do in the future, but I'm sure with her arsenal, she will surprise us.
When she gets that 3A, she could potentially do an all quad/3A program... that's wild! I don't think she would be doing this anytime soon, but the fact that she could just amazes me.
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