Mirai Nagasu's future prospects | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Mirai Nagasu's future prospects

UnsaneLily87

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
I mean, it doesn't really matter if the rumors or true or not. Watching Mirai skate I can tell she struggles with her endurance. I can speculate that it's due to training, but I can't prove that.

However, what I can prove is that these rumors do exist, and that skating is a sport where reputation matters. Rumors can sink careers. While these rumors haven't ended Mirai's career, I am sure it hasn't helped her in the eyes of the USFSA or elite-level coaches. However, now that she's signed up with Tom Z perhaps we'll see an improvement. Personally, I don't think we will, for a number of reasons, but I hope I'm wrong. Mirai is a lovely skater, and I don't think not being as hard working as other skaters is a personality flaw, just perhaps a reason why her results haven't been consistent.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Well winning a medal at nationals over Ashley and, with alleged endurance problems, "ain't" bad. lol What will she do if she improves her endurance, if , indeed, that is a problem.
 

gold12345

Medalist
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
I thought I remembered reading that Frank offered to help her move, even found a nice family for her to stay with, so that she wouldn't have to drive the two hours each way, but she refused and CHOSE to keep up with the two hour drive.

Not everyone is comfortable moving in with strangers, even if they're a very nice host family. It's one thing to move in with roommates, but it's another to move in with a set of parents that aren't yours. Mirai (and/or her parents) seemed to be more comfortable waiting to relocate until she was old enough and mature enough to be living on her own. She definitely had some logistical issues regarding her training, but I can't see how that points to a lack of desire or motivation.


Mirai on Twitter today: "Turn your setback into a comeback"

Love it!

Great quote.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
You can see they are tired as a fan. To me as a skater, it means that unless there are extenuating circumstances, this usually points to poor training plan (IOW, the skater is not doing enough run throughs so that they are on "auto pilot" from a trust in their training when they compete. This # of run throughs is different for different skaters, but there is an optimal number for each skater/program). This is why usually you see skaters improve through out the competitive season - they are getting more and more miles on the program so to speak as the season progresses until they know it backward and forward like their own name and don't have to consciously focus on each thing in the program because they KNOW they are going to do it because they "do it every day" or "do it every session" or whatever their optimal training plan is. You learn about what that is for yourself over time and to be as successful as you can be, you work within that optimal plan.

For example, when I get a new program, one of the things we work on is WHERE to take deep breaths. The first month or so, I really have to focus on each and every thing in the program (movement, elements, breathing) or else I miss details OR I "hit the wall" before I am done with the program because I am holding my breath/am breathing too shallowly. Once I get enough run throughs in, the breathing part becomes unconscious and I find my dead zone later/at the end. This movement from thinking consciously to unconsciously seems to be what is missing.

Thanks so much. That's very interesting for me. :)

Just out of curiosity. Can you pick out some skaters that you can see from their skating that they had a good training plan?

p.s. Oh dear, maybe this deserves a new topic? I don't want to hijack Mirai's topic.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Not everyone is comfortable moving in with strangers, even if they're a very nice host family. It's one thing to move in with roommates, but it's another to move in with a set of parents that aren't yours.

Indeed. I would never do that, although I used to live far away from my family since I was little (school dormitory).
I never liked to live with another family, even when they were my cousins etc. so not stranges. Friends though it's a totally different thing and it's fun.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Indeed. I would never do that, although I used to live far away from my family since I was little (school dormitory).
I never liked to live with another family, even when they were my cousins etc. so not stranges. Friends though it's a totally different thing and it's fun.

Also, some people just aren't ready in today's day and age to move away from their family at the age of 18. We can talk broadly about generational maturity and whether this is a 'bad' thing, but Mirai is far from unique in this respect. I'm almost a full decade older than Mirai now and live far from my family, (and have for 6+ years, so it's clear I CAN do it) but am thinking of moving back to where I'm from for reasons that are pretty much 90% that I miss being close to my family. I don't think that makes me immature or lazy. I think it's more of a value. Now obviously for many reason my situation is not really like Mirai's, but to think someone generally lacks work ethic or drive or whatever just because they want to stay near their family is foreign to me.
 

UnsaneLily87

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Thanks so much. That's very interesting for me. :)

Just out of curiosity. Can you pick out some skaters that you can see from their skating that they had a good training plan?

p.s. Oh dear, maybe this deserves a new topic? I don't want to hijack Mirai's topic.

I'll answer you: I can. Evan Lysacek was extremely well-trained and it was obvious every time he skated at the peak of his career. He wasn't the most naturally talented, but he was comfortable with the choreography and his skills. He was able to rely on "muscle memory" and perform in his peak condition. A lot of training is periodization--ensuring that you peak at the right moment. The best skater times their peak around Olys/Worlds. So in a way, it's ominous if a skater does too well at the beginning of the season. I know Jason Brown is very well trained but I know that from personal knowledge. However, you can see his programs build, without rests, and that to skate a program like Riverdance without a quieter section takes an incredible amount of endurance.

And no one is saying Mirai is bad or isn't one of the best skaters in the country! I think she's great. But skaters have different strong points, and I would say Mirai's are her charisma and natural personality, and not endurance.
 

flyushka

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
I'd say Michelle and Tara were both skaters with good training plans; they were both known for a strong work ethic. Really, any skater who can consistently lay down clean skates at the biggest events probably has a ton of solid training behind that. It doesn't just happen no matter how talented you are. I liked what Frank said in an interview during Sochi, that God doesn't come down from the heavens and grant you a clean skate; you have to earn it. It seems to me that Mirai did have this back in 2010, but for various reasons (some of which probably none of our business) hasn't been stable for the past few years. I do remember Frank saying in an interview that Mirai did have some off-ice circumstances during that time that played into her not moving to Palm Springs.

Another factor is puberty can be really tough on endurance - what was once easy is now a whole lot tougher, and some skaters have a hard time adjusting to that. Before you grow it can be a piece of cake to zip through a 4 minute program and afterwards it can feel like you're skating with a grand piano on your back. Mirai wasn't given an easy hand here for the past few years. I don't really expect her to ever get back to her 2010 level but she can certainly build on what she accomplished this year at Nationals with what is hopefully a much better training situation than what she's had.

As an aside, just because it was mentioned, it's amazing what Irina accomplished in spite of her vasculitis.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Also, some people just aren't ready in today's day and age to move away from their family at the age of 18. We can talk broadly about generational maturity and whether this is a 'bad' thing, but Mirai is far from unique in this respect. I'm almost a full decade older than Mirai now and live far from my family, (and have for 6+ years, so it's clear I CAN do it) but am thinking of moving back to where I'm from for reasons that are pretty much 90% that I miss being close to my family. I don't think that makes me immature or lazy. I think it's more of a value. Now obviously for many reason my situation is not really like Mirai's, but to think someone generally lacks work ethic or drive or whatever just because they want to stay near their family is foreign to me.

Good point. In the U.S., many first- or second-generation families from elsewhere retain the tradition of the generations living together. In my mother's family, people lived at home until they married, which could be as late as their thirties. (Part of that was for financial reasons, but part was just that this was the way it was done.) I knew any number of families who were Italian-American or Korean-American or from Eastern Europe or whatnot, where when the kids moved out to get married, they bought a house on the same block or around the corner. Mirai's family may value that closeness above all else. So it's not a matter of maturity as such but of connection, and I would imagine the urge is even stronger when the child is a daughter.

On another subject, I agree that what Irina accomplished was amazing for a healthy person, and almost unimaginable for a person with a chronic illness. I've always admired and liked her, and I'm thrilled that she has such a record of excellence to look back on.
 

breathesgelatin

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
I agree that Mirai sometimes looks 'winded' towards the midway point or end of her programs. I am not a big fan of Tom Z as a coach, but with his strong emphasis on personal fitness and athleticism, he might be a good match for her in that regard.
 

centerpt1

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
I am not a big fan of Tom Z as a coach, but with his strong emphasis on personal fitness and athleticism, he might be a good match for her in that regard.

Or- if he runs true to form...she will have a back injury that will limit her career. (Just ask Rachael, Max, Jeremy.....and so many more)

There is no doubt his team can get a man a Sr National Championship. Less success with the Ladies. And strikingly poor results at Worlds recently, except for Rachael.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
... to think someone generally lacks work ethic or drive or whatever just because they want to stay near their family is foreign to me.

:agree: Totally agree with your point, tulosai.

... I do remember Frank saying in an interview that Mirai did have some off-ice circumstances during that time that played into her not moving to Palm Springs. ...

Thx, flyushka.

Or- if he runs true to form...she will have a back injury that will limit her career. (Just ask Rachael, Max, Jeremy.....and so many more)

There is no doubt his team can get a man a Sr National Championship. Less success with the Ladies. And strikingly poor results at Worlds recently, except for Rachael.

For the record, Tom Z had nothing to do with Max Aaron's severe back injury. Max still was living/training at home in Arizona when he broke his back. Only after his recovery did he move to Colorado Springs to work with Tom Z.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
For the record, Tom Z had nothing to do with Max Aaron's severe back injury. Max still was living/training at home in Arizona when he broke his back. Only after his recovery did he move to Colorado Springs to work with Tom Z.

Yes, I hate Tom Z too, but Max broke his back lifting weights in the gym for hockey, before he even went to Colorado Springs. Z hasn't managed to break him any further.

I thought Rachel's injury was a leg one? Like Joshua's two months earlier.
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Also, some people just aren't ready in today's day and age to move away from their family at the age of 18. We can talk broadly about generational maturity and whether this is a 'bad' thing, but Mirai is far from unique in this respect. I'm almost a full decade older than Mirai now and live far from my family, (and have for 6+ years, so it's clear I CAN do it) but am thinking of moving back to where I'm from for reasons that are pretty much 90% that I miss being close to my family. I don't think that makes me immature or lazy. I think it's more of a value. Now obviously for many reason my situation is not really like Mirai's, but to think someone generally lacks work ethic or drive or whatever just because they want to stay near their family is foreign to me.

Absolutely. :thumbsup:

I'll answer you: I can. Evan Lysacek was extremely well-trained and it was obvious every time he skated at the peak of his career. He wasn't the most naturally talented, but he was comfortable with the choreography and his skills. He was able to rely on "muscle memory" and perform in his peak condition. A lot of training is periodization--ensuring that you peak at the right moment. The best skater times their peak around Olys/Worlds. So in a way, it's ominous if a skater does too well at the beginning of the season. I know Jason Brown is very well trained but I know that from personal knowledge. However, you can see his programs build, without rests, and that to skate a program like Riverdance without a quieter section takes an incredible amount of endurance.

Thanks. :)

What does it mean "muscle memory"? Also, I'm interested about the peak condition at the right moment. How do you reach that?
I suppose there is a method?
 

Alba

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Yagudin sometimes overtrained, which caused him to lose too much weight, and that sapped his stamina.

Irina had a serious medical condition which had put her in the hospital for almost a year. When she recovered and returned to competition, she had to be on steroids to keep her illness under control, and the medication caused her to retain fluid in her body. Fluid retention was much worse when she had to travel by plane long distances. Irina did have problems sometimes with her long programs, especially when she was on higher dosages of her medication.

Yes, I knew about Irina's health problems and that in 2005 at Worlds she was still under drugs who made her feel tired.
I was thinking before that period, but maybe I should check again her videos. Maybe she didn't have any problem with her stamina before that period and I just remember the last ones and get confused.

I didn't know that Yagudin overtrained. I know he lost weight for 2002 but I would've thought that's a good thing for the stamina too.
Did he lose too much weight?
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
When Irina first came back after her illness she was on very heavy dosages of steroids and her skating was sluggish in the beginning. Her doctors gradually weaned her off the drugs and her skating got stronger, even better than before she became ill. But sometimes she would begin to have symptoms of her illness again and the dosage would have to increase again, and you'd see that in her performances. Her 2006 Olympic performance wasn't one of her best, and may have been affected by a higher dose of steroids than usual.
 
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