2014 Cup of China Short Dance 11/07

Sam-Skwantch said:

I finally got to watch I/Z skate. Much better than I expected and my god is Elena full of fire or what. Something just feels right with them to me. The slow motion replays really show what performers these two are and during the lift....oh Elena

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She is really the star!! I am so glad that she skated so happily with Ruslan. He is becoming the man!!! :yay:

well for me, scores aside the Shibs won this night easily. I liked their style best, I feel like they've really begun to pick out the nuance in the choreography to emphasize the musical hits and rhythms. This is the first SD of the season I've truly enjoyed from start to finish. They can still push the intensity at the end but that final moment has that punch I think that's missing from most SDs this season. I hope they can keep this upward trend going. I would love to see them at the grand prix final again!

The panel held up C/L. They should be in fourth now. That dance is a dud. They were just dialing it in. Put together some vapid SD, get the levels then wow the judges with the FD. Understandable strategy given their ages, but lacking in subtlety. I expect them to be embarrassed by this performance and come rearing back in the FD.

I agree sisinka. Ilinykh/Zhiganshin's twizzles unnecessarily difficult. They should put some steps between first and second twizzles. It is still going to be level4. Arm movements, leg movements, three set with diffirent edges, all good for level4..:thumbsup:

Elena's exit from the lift is not smooth, probably she didn't want to get deduction for 6 second rule. GOE loss could be because of that.

Snow63 said:

sisinka, so you think tech panel did their job good this time?

Edit: and thanks.

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Yes, I think that Technical panel did a good job, it looks like that this Technical panel is the best working out of those three at SA, SC and COC.

I think that some moments could be discussed – for example if Lena really got Key Point 1 in Partial Step Sequence not counted because of not fully extended free leg, that also other knees should be watched so carefully – and Gabriella and Anna should also lost those Key Points. But I realise that their skirts hid knees a lot.

What I take like real mistake is the fact that all three – Technical specialist, Technical Controllor and Assistent didn’t notice that Guillaume fell at the ending pose.

sisinka said:

Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron:

As to presentation:

I will dissapoint Guillaume’s fans, I always took Gabriella like the leader not matter how many technical mistakes she did. In my opinion Guillaume needs to be more expressive and “visible“ in movements, to be more “macho“. I don’t have a feeling that Guillaume leads Gabriella, for me he is not the one who puts direction.

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This is so funny, as Guillaume does everything, he is pulling Gabriella around. If you watch carefully, she just waits for him to lift her or put her in the right place.
That is why it works so well, he is in control and she lets him control everything.
Not that this is a problem, as it is correct that the man is stronger, a man is supposed to carry the girl and lead.
Gabriella brings the personality and drama, he brings the strength and technique, it works very well.

I predict great things for them this season, but it will take time for the judges to increase their PCS notes.
By Europeans they should be getting the notes they deserve.

To be honest, I was a little shocked by C/L's dance. Out of all the top ladies, Anna was the one I thought would embrace the Spanish "character" most easily. She really didn't. I wasn't wild about the choreography either; it just seemed uninspired. And I really hope that Anna will never, ever wear that dress again--yuck. I personally would have had P/C ahead of C/L; but C/L are the reigning World Champions, and Guillaume DID fall (though he covered it well), so I suppose the placement is okay.

tulosai said:

But they must still be with her as she was with them in K&C and left the Shibs to go watch them???

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Choreographers who have worked with skaters for a few days on their programs often sit with them in the Kiss & Cry too. I guess Paola Mezzadri is invisible, since so many people didn't notice her sitting with Cappellini/Lanotte in K&C the previous seasons, and are not noticing her sitting with them now. Weird, as I personally think that she is a very noticeable woman with her red hair and overall quite extravagant style .

Matt K said:

What about Marina in kiss and cry? She is their coach

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No one said she is not their coach, but she is their consulting coach, no their main coach.

uhh said:

P/C have never got more than 91 for an FD. I think they were only 88 at SCI a couple of weeks ago.

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They got two extended lift deductions at SCI, otherwise their score would have been over 91 too. I guess they can get more as the season progresses, but not by so much as they already were technically good (except those lift deductions) at Skate Canada (Autumn Classic) International.

elif said:

I really want to understand how Capellini/Lanotte's twizzles got 0.48 positive GOE? ISU should use this in judge training program. You can't do more clear negative GOE element, without a fall.

I don't want to bother judges with small thing (!?) like ISU GOE/PCS book, but it says:

Execution not simultaneous:
one Twizzle reduce 1 grade
two Twizzles no higher than -1
Execution of Turn incorrect: (linked Three Turns, Pirouettes, scrapped, skidded, etc.):
one Twizzle incorrect no higher than 0
two or more Twizzles incorrect no higher than -1

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I see it stated quite often that things like speed and ice coverage make up for such mistakes art least partially, thus the often positive GOE for top dance teams who have made those mistakes, but the rules really seem to say otherwise. In any case, C/L's speed and ice coverage on twizzles don't seem to be all that extraordinary.

All teams got less GOE for their steps and paso dobles, comparing to SA and SC. Shibs SA step sequence got 2.20 GOE, here it was 1.32 GOE. I don't know which GP has realistic scores or low scores. Cup of China has 7 judges, not 9 like other GPs. Because of that scores could be a little bit low.

sisinka said:

Putting all top 4 couples together…and compare their Component mark…

Skating Skills: C&L – 8.25 points, S&S – 8.05 points, I&Z – 7.40 points, P&C – 7.35 points.

In reality the best skating skills have I&Z, not like usual Lena’s 9.43 points, because they need to work on getting synchro all the time, but with Anna & Luca getting 8.25, it should be at least 8.50 points. S&S looks OK in case that C&L would get around 7.70 points, P&C around 7.30 points.

Interpretation: C&L – 8.60 points, S&S – 8.10 points, P&C – 7.70 points, I&Z – 7.65 points
Choreography: C&L – 8.55 points, S&S – 8.10 points, P&C and I&Z – 7.80 points
Performance: C&L – 8.50 points, S&S – 8.25 points, I&Z – 7.75 points, P&C – 7.70 points

In my opinion Interpretation, Choreography and Performance Components were on the same level for I&Z and P&C – a very high level, with some minor differences probably for P&C who looked more like one with better synchro. S&S following those two previous couples. I would put C&L on last place with not very high marks.

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Thanks a lot for your detailed analyses, sisinka. Very interesting.

Each competition I miss Ziggy more and more.

WeakAnkles said:

Each competition I miss Ziggy more and more.

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I loved Mitchell and Islam too! I thought their SD was quite good! I want these guys to do so well! they have such style and good basics, I just want them to do better in terms of placement!!

sisinka said:

Putting all top 4 couples together…and compare their Component mark…

Skating Skills: C&L – 8.25 points, S&S – 8.05 points, I&Z – 7.40 points, P&C – 7.35 points.

In reality the best skating skills have I&Z, not like usual Lena’s 9.43 points, because they need to work on getting synchro all the time, but with Anna & Luca getting 8.25, it should be at least 8.50 points. S&S looks OK in case that C&L would get around 7.70 points, P&C around 7.30 points.

Interpretation: C&L – 8.60 points, S&S – 8.10 points, P&C – 7.70 points, I&Z – 7.65 points
Choreography: C&L – 8.55 points, S&S – 8.10 points, P&C and I&Z – 7.80 points
Performance: C&L – 8.50 points, S&S – 8.25 points, I&Z – 7.75 points, P&C – 7.70 points

In my opinion Interpretation, Choreography and Performance Components were on the same level for I&Z and P&C – a very high level, with some minor differences probably for P&C who looked more like one with better synchro. S&S following those two previous couples. I would put C&L on last place with not very high marks.

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sisinka, thanks so much for all your analysis! I learn so much from your posts. I was wondering what you thought about Paul/Islam and how they were marked?

Meoima said:

She is really the star!! I am so glad that she skated so happily with Ruslan. He is becoming the man!!! :yay:

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I am really excited about this team and I hope they will go far. They look great together -- I loved those twizzles.

WeakAnkles said:

Each competition I miss Ziggy more and more.

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Me, too. Especially the pairs. Not many people watching pairs and that made it more obvious someone is missing.

sisinka said:

What I take like real mistake is the fact that all three – Technical specialist, Technical Controllor and Assistent didn’t notice that Guillaume fell at the ending pose.

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This should have been a deduction.

Alba said:

What are you talking about?

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Consider the source.

lauravvv said:

Choreographers who have worked with skaters for a few days on their programs often sit with them in the Kiss & Cry too. I guess Paola Mezzadri is invisible, since so many people didn't notice her sitting with Cappellini/Lanotte in K&C the previous seasons, and are not noticing her sitting with them now. Weird, as I personally think that she is a very noticeable woman with her red hair and overall quite extravagant style .

No one said she is not their coach, but she is their consulting coach, no their main coach.

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I do know that in reality, de facto I mean, Zueva is having the role of a consultant.
However, she is officially listed as their coach together with Paola.
Most probably C&L think Zueva's name will give them more boost in terms of points, and maybe in terms of creativity as well (I'm not sure about the later).
Fair enough, but officially Zueva is their coach too. If Anna and Luca didn't want Zueva to be seen as their coach there is no need for them to put her name as their coach. If I'm not mistaken they did work with Zueva in the past as well, but never listed her as their coach.


@Sisinka: Thank you very much for your analysis. Very much appreciated and I agree with all of them.

About the lift of I&Z, I think it was very good except for the exit, and I fully agree about the SS. The best among the couples.

About the choreo, interpretation and performance, I said yesterday: P&C, I&Z and Shibutani the best for me.

First Skate said:

sisinka, thanks so much for all your analysis! I learn so much from your posts. I was wondering what you thought about Paul/Islam and how they were marked?

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Alexandra Paul & Mitchell Islam:

Twizzles Level 4:
…Mitchell OK, Alexandra looked to do three turns from time to time during the first and second Set – she needs to fix her knee of standing leg more…

Paso Doble Level 2 (Key Point 1 counted):
…very nicely done Key Point 1…
…I would say that in Key Point 2 Mitchell didn’t have good edge after changing on Right Backward Outside edge…
…last part of the Key Point 3 was not visible thanks to camera angle, but cross steps looked OK…

Partial Step Sequence Level 2 (Key Point 2 – man’s steps counted):
…Key Point 1 – I think that Alexandra didn’t execute full left leg extension during slide steps…
…Key Point 2 – very well done by Mitchell…
…Key Point 3 – I am not sure about Alexandra’s edge in last step – Left Backward Inside edge and I also think that swing movement of free leg by both was not good…

Not Touching Step Sequence Level 2:
…many light edges…
…I think that a problem could be in One Foot Section where many edges where light and under question whether there was an edge or no, in some of these turns I was not very sure whether the chance of edge was clean without going through heel of blade…
…I think that this Step Sequence was watched repeatedly by panel to find what was right and could be counted and what not…

Nice lift.

Not good work in knees, they need to improve in this. The couple is rather slow.

As to presentation:

I like the choreography and music, I like Mitchell’s upper body posture here – it looks very well.

What is killing the overall expression in my eyes is the fact that the couple looks to be very careful through the whole program. Careful skating can never be passionate or dynamic and sharp and it never takes you into a dance – but all those things should be in Spanish dance.

Nice program, but in presentation I would really put them on the fourth or fifth place – I would think whether C&L’s SD with much more expression but in non Spanish dance style was better or not, I am not sure.

Overall I think it is a pity for P&I that they didn’t skate at Skate America. They would be third after the SD and third or fourth in FD. Cup of China was much more difficult competition than Skate America this season (not comparing points but real skating).

Thank you so much, sisinka! I completely agree re: their assignments. They've been very unfortunate/unsupported.