2014 Rostelecom Cup Short Dance 11/14

MarieM said:

It has nothing to do with fan perspective.
Elena's use of blades is to die for. I won't add that her lines and posture are the best nor that she can (when she wants) do any styles. She's a classic russian skater with basics to die for. I wonder why the others are not like her, but they are not. Their posture usually sucks, they can do a lot of ice true but that's nothing good to say about their edge control.
And I won't add her knee bend is probably the best of all ice dancers around. But she can't skate alone, can she?

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she is a classic russian skater ? but Nikita was equally good in his edges and stroking, look now how Ilinykh skates with Zhiganshin as a background
he has been overshadowed by her and her build prevents them from doing innovative lift even with the new dance rule lift in FD, that whatever poorman's gooselift
they did was just plain bad, its not only her fault its more like this partnership isnt ideal. If some people can claim I/Z have technical goods then so will S/K

flutz16 said:

she is a classic russian skater ? but Nikita was equally good in his edges and stroking, look now how Ilinykh skates with Zhiganshin as a background
he has been overshadowed by her and her build prevents them from doing innovative lift even with the new dance rule lift in FD, that whatever poorman's gooselift
they did was just plain bad, its not only her fault its more like this partnership isnt ideal. If some people can claim I/Z have technical goods then so will S/K

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New partnerships. It takes 3 to 5 years to gel as a team. I don't expect any of the new teams to gel. And I agree, Nikita and Elena were made to skate with each other. I just hope one day he won't regret what he's done (well I do hope he does, Karma's a ***** right ?)

MarieM said:

New partnerships. It takes 3 to 5 years to gel as a team. I don't expect any of the new teams to gel. And I agree, Nikita and Elena were made to skate with each other. I just hope one day he won't regret what he's done (well I do hope he does, Karma's a ***** right ?)

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the why only Nikita should get Karma ? disliking a skater's partnership also based from his previous history and results is just not right
some people are uneasy or threatened of Nikita being more successful of this new partnerships. I hope they will be good in their technique because S/K have the making of becoming the new Rus No.1 this quad along with Popova/ Vlasenko

MarieM said:

New partnerships. It takes 3 to 5 years to gel as a team. I don't expect any of the new teams to gel. And I agree, Nikita and Elena were made to skate with each other. I just hope one day he won't regret what he's done (well I do hope he does, Karma's a ***** right ?)

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How can this be said about Elena and Nikita? They had 3 seasons of failure.

gmyers said:

How can this be said about Elena and Nikita? They had 3 seasons of failure.

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not to mention just got lucky at the right time, event and competition
their 3 seasons of inconsistency wasn't just Katasalapov's fault

flutz16 said:

not to mention just got lucky at the right time, event and competition
their 3 seasons of inconsistency wasn't just Katasalapov's fault

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I totally agree! "Win everything" "big mistake"? Do people only remember Olympics 2014? 2010-2013 they were going nowhere. They didn't work well together. It wasn't working at all. P/c of France shows how a team can be successful when a partnership really works and works well. Not an I/k who worked well once a year.

gmyers said:

I totally agree! "Win everything" "big mistake"? Do people only remember Olympics 2014? 2010-2013 they were going nowhere. They didn't work well together. It wasn't working at all. P/c of France shows how a team can be successful when a partnership really works and works well. Not an I/k who worked well once a year.

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Thank you!!!! I/K were brilliant in Sochi (well-deserved medals), very good in Euros and the FD at TEB but ... that's about it. Their "Ghost" for 2012/13 was terrible and they hadn't been great since they won 2010 WJr and then we waited a four year gap for greatness to manifest ...

That being said, am looking forward to seeing the new S/K lift we've been hearing so much about.

flutz16 said:

not to mention just got lucky at the right time, event and competition
their 3 seasons of inconsistency wasn't just Katasalapov's fault

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I know. I thought I/K had tremendous potential but they were all over the place results wise. I think they could have been much better than they were.

flutz16 said:

she is a classic russian skater ? but Nikita was equally good in his edges and stroking, look now how Ilinykh skates with Zhiganshin as a background
he has been overshadowed by her and her build prevents them from doing innovative lift even with the new dance rule lift in FD, that whatever poorman's gooselift
they did was just plain bad, its not only her fault its more like this partnership isnt ideal. If some people can claim I/Z have technical goods then so will S/K

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If you really persist on Ruslan being poor partner…then I want to know…

1. How do you expain the fact that I&Z skates closer to each other than I&K in Step Sequences?

2. How do you explain the fact that I&Z’s Step Sequences are faster than I&K’s Step sequences?
I&Z - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rgR7cEYIcnU#t=85
I&K - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=y1Zu4ZKruzw#t=113

3. How do you explain that I&Z’s Twizzles have much better ice coverage and are simply “flying“ in the first Set in comparison with I&K’s when Nikita was in good mood? (And I&K had great Twizzles when being clean.)
I&Z - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgR7cEYIcnU&feature=player_detailpage#t=123
I&K - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO5VtI5Gl5c&feature=player_detailpage#t=233
(Not to mention that I&K’s speed coming into the Twizzles was bigger than in case of I&Z, but even with such advantage I&K got smaller ice coverage)

Are we starting to play “If you are faster, doing better Twizzles and getting more close to your partner than her previous partner…you are weaker one“ game?
That is very funny.

I would kindly ask you to answer all my three questions using some appropriate arguments (boys with brown hair are better technicians than boys with blonde hair – is not accepted like a good argument).

flutz16 said:

she is a classic russian skater ? but Nikita was equally good in his edges and stroking, look now how Ilinykh skates with Zhiganshin as a background
he has been overshadowed by her and her build prevents them from doing innovative lift even with the new dance rule lift in FD, that whatever poorman's gooselift
they did was just plain bad, its not only her fault its more like this partnership isnt ideal. If some people can claim I/Z have technical goods then so will S/K

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Oh, I have another question...

4. In 100% cases people who have deep edges are great technicians. How do you explain that both Lena and Ruslan have great and deep edges when you point that Ruslan is poor technician?

gmyers said:

How can this be said about Elena and Nikita? They had 3 seasons of failure.

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They had three seasons of improving. They turned senior after one year of juniors, they made a good start getting 4th at their 1st Euros, medalling every year after that, some good GP results and some not so good, but do you really expect everyone to be a model of consistency, especially at their age? Look at D/W and Charlie's frequent meltdowns before 2011, or P/B who never seems to be able to get rid of their silly mistakes. But by Sochi everything had come together for I/K, they looked like different skaters from what they had done in previous seasons. The programs weren't perfect, but even when they had rubbish like Ghost, they could sell it as no other team could like at Euros 2013. What did people expect, for them to be challenging for a world medal from their first senior year and after really only 2.5 years of skating together? Ice dance takes time more than any other discipline. Look at the years before V/M - you rarely saw champions younger than their mid twenties, certainly not teenagers like Elena because the judges value maturity as well as the technical solidity that comes with skating with the same person for many seasons. In a sense, V/M were lucky that a void had been created at the top of ice dance through injury to the older teams that allowed them to have their success so young in Vancouver.

The important things was that they were progressing, go back and look at interviews from the last season and a half together, and you will see even Nikita who was apparently oh so unhappy saying that they were understanding each other better and better, and feeling more like a team every time they competed, she was the perfect partner for him etc etc and up until Worlds it seemed they were really supporting each other as a partnership. Everything was coming together, and the years working as a team were paying off. Lena said the training after Sochi was like flying, it felt so good. It's such a shame that he has thrown that away, there have been so many champion teams that didn't get on brilliantly like Grishuk/Platov and Marina/Gwendal and still stuck it out because it was the best thing for their careers. Was the situation really harder for him than for Usova/Zhulin who stuck together for their chance at Olympic gold even when their marriage had fallen apart? I don't think either of them will be back to the level they were in Sochi by 2018 with their new partners, and it is such as waste of two great talents.

sisinka said:

If you really persist on Ruslan being poor partner…then I want to know…

1. How do you expain the fact that I&Z skates closer to each other than I&K in Step Sequences?

2. How do you explain the fact that I&Z’s Step Sequences are faster than I&K’s Step sequences?
I&Z - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rgR7cEYIcnU#t=85
I&K - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=y1Zu4ZKruzw#t=113

3. How do you explain that I&Z’s Twizzles have much better ice coverage and are simply “flying“ in the first Set in comparison with I&K’s when Nikita was in good mood? (And I&K had great Twizzles when being clean.)
I&Z - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgR7cEYIcnU&feature=player_detailpage#t=123
I&K - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO5VtI5Gl5c&feature=player_detailpage#t=233
(Not to mention that I&K’s speed coming into the Twizzles was bigger than in case of I&Z, but even with such advantage I&K got smaller ice coverage)

Are we starting to play “If you are faster, doing better Twizzles and getting more close to your partner than her previous partner…you are weaker one“ game?
That is very funny.

I would kindly ask you to answer all my three questions using some appropriate arguments (boys with brown hair are better technicians than boys with blonde hair – is not accepted like a good argument).

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I am not good ad judging prime levels but

1 they skate closer but look how their step sequence in close hand, its really slow, level 1 slow

2 because they dont ? they skate faster in the first half then lost steam at the end. maybe because this programs is unpolished or they need more time but definitely was not faster in step sequences, second half must have been level 1 or 2

3 the twizzles werent faster, they looked much the same as I/K, though I/K messed up twizzles when they successfully completed it, they got better GOEs on their twizzle sets

flutz16 said:

I am not good ad judging prime levels but

1 they skate closer but look how their step sequence in close hand, its really slow, level 1 slow

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Speed is not a factor in gauging the levels of s step sequence. I suggest you read the ISU handbook for technical panels, it's very helpful.

sisinka said:

Oh, I have another question...

4. In 100% cases people who have deep edges are great technicians. How do you explain that both Lena and Ruslan have great and deep edges when you point that Ruslan is poor technician?

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during S/Z partnership. Zhiganshin had the weaker edges and skating skills,
Victoria may not have bent much her knees but she still had better edges.

If you want great skating skills look at Katasalapov or Mozgov even Khalaivin
he isn't a hunchback skater like Bukin Jr but he is almost at par with Vlasenko

noidont said:

I feel like Lena and Ruslan has somewhat of a choreographic disadvantage. Averbukh's programs lack nuances, the kind of minute nuances that Lena and Ruslan are more than capable of at this point. This FD could be a lot more interesting. I wish they took the Secret Garden out and just go with the piano music at the beginning and end, showing some kind of intensity. I imagine Zueva is going to make V&N tease and flirt the hell out of each other in the Gary Moore program to hide their various weaknesses.

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Thats what is visible in the video.

flutz16 said:

during S/Z partnership. Zhiganshin had the weaker edges and skating skills,
Victoria may not have bent much her knees but she still had better edges.

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??? Using your knees is the absolute key to good basics, keeping clean edges through turns, maintaining speed without needing to do a load of crossovers. How can she be the stronger skater when even you admit that her leg work is so stiff?

uhh said:

??? Using your knees is the absolute key to good basics, keeping clean edges through turns, maintaining speed without needing to do a load of crossovers. How can she be the stronger skater when even you admit that her leg work is so stiff?

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Zhiganshin's look at his strokes,
his edges is like he is using a flexed set of feet. you can switch him with Vlasenko with Ilinykh and not much difference with the level of skating.

Pippuripihvi said:

Some bits from Sinicyna/Katsalapov FD (skip the first minute or so)
Somehow Nikita during the interview looked younger than he used too

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y7HFdFX-ayg

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So we have a video, I was looking forward to see the whole program or at least excerpts, so I was disappointed. Like usual I expected a possibility to see all things and make an opinion, instead of it we got just a “tactic game“.

Zueva asked not to make a video, but this short report was made. Parts of S&K’s skating were really chosen carefully.

From the first look it is obvious that Victoria and Nikita want to skate with each other and they are very satisfied to skate with each other. They are looking very well together in terms of body building and face, they are very nice couple.

And what we saw on the ice…
Some elements…no, only one whole element – curved lift with Nikita in crouching position. All the rest was just some part of another elements which gives no idea about whole element or about the program. I&Z had practise video from COC where they showed some parts of SD with whole choreography of that part…in case of S&K we saw only some seconds from here and some seconds from there – that is perfect for creating any image you want, but this hardly shows the reality of 4 minutes program.

What was showed….

1. Curved lift looked very well looking at Victoria, but looking at Nikita crouching – he was very shaky looking at his blades (like he was with Lena).

2. Second lift was shown in a part when Vika already kept position of Davis & White similar lift. Once again Vika’s position looks very well and the lift is difficult, but Nikita is once again not sure – his free leg is moving up and down. Why we didn’t see whole element – entry of the lift? Was it by chance or the entry and coming into the position was not so good to be showed?

3. We saw part of Twizzles, but only second and third Set with small ice coverage. Where was first Set? Not showed by chance or it was not that good to be seen?

4. We saw a part of Circular Step Sequence – but only Double Twizzles by both and Vika’s Rocker with almost no opening edge and very nice second edge – both in moment when the couple had very small speed across the ice. Why we didn’t see at least a half of Step Sequence to make a better idea about quality of steps?

5. We saw some Transition parts – few seconds from the beginning of program, maybe and two seconds with Vika hugging Nikita – both were done while couple was staing on one place and not skating.

In the beginning I thought that all elements were done during their program when they skated from the beginning to the end, but during last few seconds of the video it is visible that blues music starts to play while S&K are just skating forward gaining speed and that music part is definitely not the beginning of the program. So music was played more times and program was done by parts with repetition of elements. Which means that every element was done more times during the training session and the best performed element was chosen into video – not particularly that one from whole program skating.

Marina Zueva talks about the biggest speed on the world – so why didn’t she chose a Transitions part where the couple is doing some edge work or at least cross overs to have some idea about the real speed of the couple?
Why didn’t she showed whole Step Sequence when the couple is so briliant to show high speed in difficult elements?

It all makes me wonder what was the sense of this all.

I am expecting video report with Stepanova & Bukin and Ilinykh & Zhiganshin…if S&K gots such media support than it is only logical to expect support for other couples also, no?

Sisinka, you are the boss. But what I also noticed is this. Did S/K borrow the Shibs twizzling technique, but with hunched shoulders in Katsalapov? This was a PR stunt and a very risky one at that.

As for Ruslan having poor technique. Haha. Never in my life have I seen Katsalapov do two sets of clean twizzles the way Ruslan did at CoC. NEVER! They were not even this good from him at Sochi. Hahaha.....

flutz16 said:

Zhiganshin's look at his strokes,
his edges is like he is using a flexed set of feet. you can switch him with Vlasenko with Ilinykh and not much difference with the level of skating.

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You are using words without even knowing what they mean