The Protopopovs pop off about figure skating today

Spirit · Apr 27, 2004

Sorry for the pun, but the chance to use it would never come again.

Anyhoo, the Protopopovs have written a letter to everyone in the world, and they evidently had a lot on their minds. I've only skimmed it, but it seems to consist of extremely harsh criticism of Cinquanta and the ISU.

What surprises me more than the content is that the letter publicly states their address, phone number and their rather cute e-mail address. So if you ever wanted to contact the Protopopovs, now's your chance.

http://worldskating.org/news/protopopovs.pdf

lulu · Apr 27, 2004

I saw the letter-I haven't had the chance to read the entire thing though-it is a 30+ page document.

I think the e-mail is adorable.

I wonder if I send an e-mail to lillehammergold @yahoo.com I'll be able to reach Alexei Urmanov?!

berthes ghost · Apr 27, 2004

Gosh that was fabulous, but then I've always loved them! It was peppered with so many witty digs too.

ITA:
- COP: sorry, but the whole is not always equal to the sum of it's parts.
- Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, become the president of the governing body and make all the rules that those who can must follow.
- the LP is just a double time SP these days. A checklist of elements for untrained judges to tick off "landed" or "not landed".

Some new ideas for me:
- If the ISU is going to require skaters to do quads and overhead lifts, then they had better offer them insurance for when they get injured.
- Just because the ISU sells skating to TV, doesn't mean it can tell the skaters how to skate.

clairecloutier · Apr 27, 2004

I've scanned up through page 10 and the basic content looks interesting. But gosh, the writing and formatting are terrible. Is this their original document, or is it a translation from Russian?? The whole piece would have a lot more impact if it were decently written and presented.

dr.frog · Apr 27, 2004

It is the original document and not a translation. I think everyone understands that the Protopopovs are not native English speakers, which makes it all the more remarkable that they would attempt to write a document of this length. Yes, the formatting is weird, but I think their own "voice" comes through in a way that wouldn't have been possible if the article had been professionally edited for publication.

Ptichka · Apr 27, 2004

Interesting article. Boy, do they hate Ciquanta!

What I found really interesting is the part where they talk about physical impact of doing too many elements. How ultimately less oxygen get to the brain, inducing "semi-consious" state, and thus skaters make more mistakes. Could explain the increased number of "chockers" in recent years.

clairecloutier · Apr 27, 2004

Speaking as a professional editor, I disagree.

A good editor knows how to keep an author's voice and still present their ideas in coherent language and an organized format. A great example of this is E.M. Swift's work on Katia Gordeeva's book, My Sergei. He did a wonderful job in that book of maintaining Katia's distinct voice and outlook, while making her writing accessible to an American audience.

lulu · Apr 27, 2004

The Protopopovs' document was not aimed at a mainstream (figure skating fans/not) audience that Katia's book was.
The Protopopovs' document was aimed at those involved in the ISU, skating politicians and major figure skating afficianados.
Also, Katia's book, a personal memoir is vastly different in approach to a more technical sounding document that the Protopopovs wrote.

I agree that some of the formatting was confussing-but I thought the actual content was fairly clear.

They bring up a lot of very interesting points.

Ptichka · Apr 27, 2004

Lulu, I agree. I would also add that I am sure they would have gone to the editor if they published this essay in any established publication. As it is, this is more like a personal letter to those involved in figure skating.

76olympics · Apr 27, 2004

Whew!

I scanned through the article-and I do agree with a lot of their views. I do think that there is a limit to what the body can endure physically-particularly at younger and younger ages. I wouldn't say that I was a fervant Tara Lipinski fan-but the trajectory of her career is really sad. Those injuries did not have to happen if she had followed a less punishing path.

This was the blessing of figures-tho' they had so many drawbacks. I do think it kept skaters from peaking too early and helped de-emphasize the almighty jump. I don't know how they could have altered the situation to stop the judging abuses that happened with the figues-but abolishing them altogether was not an entirely good thing.

bronxgirl · Apr 27, 2004

I always knew I admired the Protopopovs for a very good reason...

berthes ghost · Apr 28, 2004

This was the blessing of figures-tho' they had so many drawbacks.

Interesting that you mention this. As pairs skaters, the Protopopovs never skated figures. Many of the dangers and injuries that they are talking about involve pairs skaters: the overhead lifts, throw jumps, sibe-by-side triples, twist lifts, etc...Also, the crossover, crossover, sbs triples, crossover, crossover, throw jump, crossover, crossover, pairs spin...check list of elements with no room left for choreo that they complain about regarding contemporary pairs skating. In fact, 90% of the treatise was about pairs skating, and pairs never did figures.

NwSwEeTy · Apr 28, 2004

they coach me when they come to Lake Placid in summer.From what I read that is how they speak and I say good job

Mathman · Apr 28, 2004

Hi NWSweety, welcome to the forum. Wow, you're lucky to get coaching from such distinguished teachers. Are you a pairs skater?

Mathman

treeskater · Apr 28, 2004

While I agree with much of their thoughts, the theme that carries throughout their letter is the demise of artistry due to the increase in the technical component. But sadly, I think there are many skating fans who do only respond to the technical 'wow' factors. Yes there have been some very memorial programs which captured everyone almost into silence as they were drawn in, but those are rare and will be rarer still in the future. With the demise of the Pro circuit, artistry has no place to go and expand. The recent great choreographers are almost not needed anymore. Not gone yet, but the ticking off of elements (and the audience's responses to those elements) does not make for much motivation to develope the artistry.

One of the saddest things for me to witness is what has happened to dance. The applause comes after the lifts! Dance is looking more like pairs every season.

The ISU did do a 'Media' instructional tape where they actually took some programs first viewed with all the jumps and then edited to play without the jumps - there was a huge difference in the quality of the programs by some of the examples. Yet it still is the jumps that get written about.

So while I greatly appreciate what the P's are saying, I feel their hearts are artistic favored (understandable) but the reality is that the media, the ISU, and the fans continue to speak the loudest about the 'tricks.' How often has a written review (by the media or the fans) really talked equally about the in-between movements, the flow, the feeling, the quality of the edges, etc. with just as much importance as the jumps and spins?

Just once, I would love to see an elite competition on world-wide TV that made the skaters do programs without jumps. I really wonder how the public would respond then.

Ptichka · Apr 28, 2004

Treeskater, while I agree with most of what you're saying, I'd like to emphasize that there is one other theme that runs through the letter -- the skaters' health. It pains me to think that the rules will only change when enough skaters will be injured...

berthes ghost · Apr 28, 2004

....but the reality is that the media, the ISU, and the fans continue to speak the loudest about the 'tricks.'

This is really ironic. When we all first watched skating, we couldn't even tell one jump from another. We all just decided who we liked and who we didn't, and this, I believe, was derrived from their artistic effort.

Also, one must avoid vague subjective ideas on the web or risk getting flamed. To say "but skater x fell 3 times" is OK because it's fact and even her most rabid fans can't call you a troll if you are just stating a fact. If you were to say "skater x doesn't have any feeling for music and has nothing new to say regarding skating", boy, just sit back and be prepared to be flamed.

I don't believe so much in the power of the media. They report on events. If the judges keep insisting on giving titles to he/she whom lands the most jumps, then all responsible reporters will continue mentioning them as a way of explaining why Joe/Jane Doe won.

76olympics · Apr 28, 2004

I concede your point (LOL!)

You are right-my figures point was not really a pairs point! Their letter just got me musing on things that I have thought about for a long time. I think they were in the same emotional territory anyway-that the sport can be expansive and uplifting without pushing the technical component through the stratosphere-so that skaters don't have the chance to gain in artistry until they leave the amateur ranks.

NwSwEeTy · Apr 28, 2004

no mathman i am a singles skater but thats because i'm to tall.The Protopopovs are nice people that want to bring back a type of figure skating that has been lost lately.I'm happy they wrote this but I wish they could have made it a little shorter lol.

dmr65 · Apr 28, 2004

Boy!! Is that thing ever long!!!

The Protopopovs pop off about figure skating today

Spirit

lulu

berthes ghost

clairecloutier

dr.frog

Ptichka

Forum translator

clairecloutier

lulu

Ptichka

Forum translator

76olympics

bronxgirl

berthes ghost

NwSwEeTy

Mathman

treeskater

Ptichka

Forum translator

berthes ghost

76olympics

NwSwEeTy

dmr65

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