2014-15 Japanese Nationals Mens SP

sajoya · Dec 26, 2014

Yuzuru having two jumps in the second half, his quad and 3A getting high GOE, and better spins was what helped him get the lead. So I'm not too upset with Yuzuru's lead, however I do agree that Machida should have had a score where he's closer to Yuzuru's, b/c that SP was PERFECTION! Just wow, what an artist! :bow:

Redemption at it's best! It's okay, Machida. You still have the FP. Go get your revenge!

Caustica · Dec 26, 2014

I checked last year's PCS for Hanyu and Machida (they were at the same placements after SP) and the gap has in fact lessened! (As it should have because Hanyu had a messy lutz/doubled toe.)

This year: Hanyu 45.60, Machida 42.00
Last year: Hanyu 46.90, Machida 42.40

I don't believe PCS is awarded based on the actual skate anyway. :laugh:

Both of them had lower PCS and TES than last year (non-sequitur; random point).

Violet Bliss · Dec 26, 2014

deedee1 said:
Sooo sad for Taka... Hope he skates much better in the free tomorrow.

He skated his SP just fine, the best as far as I'm concerned - beautiful program beautifully skated. Hope he jumps much better in the free tomorrow.

deedee1 · Dec 26, 2014

SkateFiguring said:
He skated his SP just fine, the best as far as I'm concerned - beautiful program beautifully skated. Hope he jumps much better in the free tomorrow.

You're absolutely right. He did skate it so beautifully. :yes: Thanks for correcting me, SkateFiguring.

merleice · Dec 26, 2014

Caustica said:
I checked last year's PCS for Hanyu and Machida (they were at the same placements after SP) and the gap has in fact lessened! (As it should have because Hanyu had a fall.)

This year: Hanyu 45.60, Machida 42.00
Last year: Hanyu 46.90, Machida 42.40

I don't believe PCS is awarded based on the actual skate anyway. Both of them had lower PCS and TES than last year (non-sequitur; random point).

?? Hanyu had a tilted triple lutz with a messy landing but was still able to add a double toe loop in combination. He did not fall. Are you thinking of his SP at GPF?

Caustica · Dec 26, 2014

merleice said:
?? Hanyu had a tilted triple lutz with a messy landing but was still able to add a double toe loop in combination. He did not fall. Are you thinking of his SP at GPF?

Oops that is what I meant.

Sorry it is late haha. Anyway I'll edit the post and the PCS comparison remains.

FlattFan · Dec 26, 2014

Machida is really mesmerizing. They lowballed him big time here. The same skate would score at least 4 more points, probably more as the season progresses.
Hanyu is probably just right. If he's clean, he should be looking at 100+. That 4T and 3A are worthy of +3 across the board.

msteach3 · Dec 26, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Hanyu's wasn't cautious... It was understated with lots of complexity.

However to me Machida put his heart out there and Hanyu made a visible error. If Machida did indeed UR his 4T-3T combo that's still not as bad as Hanyu's lutz 3-2.

A case can be made for Machida very slightly leading but IMO Hanyu's 4-point lead over Machida is too large. As mentioned, I'd raise Machida's and lower Hanyu's with Hanyu leading 92.5-93 points to Machida with 91-92 points.

So much armchair judging on this thread... :rofl:

Were you people in the arena or just watching on Youtube? How on earth can you judge scores based on that? Can't we just enjoy the skating without constantly bickering and complaining about who scored what? :eek:

BounceAround · Dec 26, 2014

Silvia451 said:
I look at Machida's SS and IN marks and I can say I really don't understand figure skating at all

The low IN mark was probably because the judges are not in his corner. If you watch his step sequence, you can see that he is not only relatively slow (which doesn't bother me) but truly does have some weaknesses in basic skating. He executes several elements that are supposed to happen on a deep curve, and during those elements he either doesn't skate on a curve at all or only skates on a very shallow curve. He can get deep knee bend, but the knee action is not very smooth. The turning in his twizzles is also uneven and relatively slow.

Compare his step sequence to Shoma's step sequence at this competition or to Mao's step sequence in her "Ladies in Lavender" program from 2007/2008 Nationals. Even though the latter has a lot of unnecessary bracket turns which do not showcase any edge quality or add much to the step sequence, it still demonstrates a greater variety of and mastery of turns and knee bend and, at the end of the sequence, edges. Or just look at the difference between Shoma and Mao's loop turns and Tatsuki's loop turn. A lot of the problems are already apparent there.

If we add together all the parts of PCS, then I still feel that Tatsuki is the strongest, especially in Choreography and Interpretation. Thus I agree with those who say he was underscored in PCS. I also have some sentimental bias towards him because he tries really hard to improve his skating and he gives his all to the performance. I hope he has a great FS tomorrow.

demarinis5 · Dec 26, 2014

I just finished watching the men, thrilled about Shoma's placement! Great skating from the top four!

Taka is still struggling, hope that his FS will be better.

xabia · Dec 26, 2014

Well, after spending this afternoon watching a really disappointing Mens FS in the Russian Nationals I was gobsmacked by the quality of the top Japanese boys. The top four should all be allowed to go to Worlds (if only!!!).

Interspectator · Dec 26, 2014

xabia said:
Well, after spending this afternoon watching a really disappointing Mens FS in the Russian Nationals I was gobsmacked by the quality of the top Japanese boys. The top four should all be allowed to go to Worlds (if only!!!).

USA wishes Murakami Daisuke had stayed ...I know he wanted to skate for Japan and I think his courage to go against this field is AMAZING...but he could lose a chance to go to worlds that he could get much more easily in the US. :drama:

HanDomi · Dec 26, 2014

Newbiespectator said:
USA wishes Murakami Daisuke had stayed ...I know he wanted to skate for Japan and I think his courage to go against this field is AMAZING...but he could lose a chance to go to worlds that he could get much more easily in the US.

He could have been even going for US national title :drama:

silverfoxes · Dec 26, 2014

HanDomi said:
He could have been even going for US national title

And I think he could win it without much trouble, considering the current field. :eek:

hwell:

Hope he makes the podium here...the more I watch him, the more I like him. Shoma still leaves me cold, although I can't dispute that he is technically very good.

So happy that Tatsuki is in better form now!

Maofen · Dec 26, 2014

Newbiespectator said:
USA wishes Murakami Daisuke had stayed ...I know he wanted to skate for Japan and I think his courage to go against this field is AMAZING...but he could lose a chance to go to worlds that he could get much more easily in the US.

... but maybe, MAYBE, he wouldn't be this good if he hadn't competed for Japan? Maybe this amazing field had shaped him because you know what they say.. in Japan he constantly goes against great rivals that in the end pushes him to do better.. who knows..

Perdita · Dec 26, 2014

BounceAround said:
The low IN mark was probably because the judges are not in his corner. If you watch his step sequence, you can see that he is not only relatively slow (which doesn't bother me) but truly does have some weaknesses in basic skating. He executes several elements that are supposed to happen on a deep curve, and during those elements he either doesn't skate on a curve at all or only skates on a very shallow curve. He can get deep knee bend, but the knee action is not very smooth. The turning in his twizzles is also uneven and relatively slow.

Compare his step sequence to Shoma's step sequence at this competition or to Mao's step sequence in her "Ladies in Lavender" program from 2007/2008 Nationals. Even though the latter has a lot of unnecessary bracket turns which do not showcase any edge quality or add much to the step sequence, it still demonstrates a greater variety of and mastery of turns and knee bend and, at the end of the sequence, edges. Or just look at the difference between Shoma and Mao's loop turns and Tatsuki's loop turn. A lot of the problems are already apparent there.

If we add together all the parts of PCS, then I still feel that Tatsuki is the strongest, especially in Choreography and Interpretation. Thus I agree with those who say he was underscored in PCS. I also have some sentimental bias towards him because he tries really hard to improve his skating and he gives his all to the performance. I hope he has a great FS tomorrow.

Totally agree.

Also, those who are wondering about levels should count the revolutions of the positions of spins and no. of turns and steps during step sequences as well. Tatsuki and Yuzuru, they both normally have just 3 revolutions for difficult positions in spins. So a little shortage of revolutions can make them degraded.

About PCS, I actually think that Machida can be lower than Yuzuru. I know that Machida's choreography is beautiful, and I love the way he commit himself to such expressions, but I'm not sure whether most of his upper body movements are related to skating. Also his edges are not as deep as Yuzuru's. In Yuzuru's skating, though his arm movements and posture are poorly done compared to Tatsuki, but in terms of skating I think his better. I can see his body constantly feeling the edges and centrifugal force coming out of skating (which was much much better in GPF though). After all, this is not an artistic show but a sport regarding skating.

And I'm just being an armchair judge as well :biggrin:

But at least I'm trying to understand the judges.
If this sport is sad, it's not because the judges are wrong (sometimes they are indeed wrong though) but because the fans think that they are wrong while the fans don't even try to understand them.

I don't mean to criticize those who are skeptical about judging, rather I want to encourage them to take this as a chance to start studying judging

Because that's how I started

MIM · Dec 27, 2014

Omg!!! I got my prediction 100% correct from the 1st to the 6th!!!
I know it is only so and will not stay the same after fp, but this is the closest I got. :biggrin:

:dance:

Loved Yuzu's 4t, kozuka's skating, shoma's placement, mura's 3a and attack, and machida's redemption!
Did not like yuzu's arm movements.

ioanna · Dec 27, 2014

perdita said:
About PCS, I actually think that Machida can be lower than Yuzuru. I know that Machida's choreography is beautiful, and I love the way he commit himself to such expressions, but I'm not sure whether most of his upper body movements are related to skating. Also his edges are not as deep as Yuzuru's. In Yuzuru's skating, though his arm movements and posture are poorly done compared to Tatsuki, but in terms of skating I think his better. I can see his body constantly feeling the edges and centrifugal force coming out of skating (which was much much better in GPF though). After all, this is not an artistic show but a sport regarding skating.

I think most posters here agreed on the fact that Machida and Hanyu's PCS should have been closer, not that Machida should have scored higher. A difference of 2 points should have been enough, because Hanyu is not that much better than Machida overall. But the standings right now are how they should be so all is good.

And how can we not be skeptical about judging if you have Takahiko Kozuka competing here and he didn't get the highest mark in SS? :biggrin:

Perdita · Dec 30, 2014

ioanap said:
I think most posters here agreed on the fact that Machida and Hanyu's PCS should have been closer, not that Machida should have scored higher. A difference of 2 points should have been enough, because Hanyu is not that much better than Machida overall. But the standings right now are how they should be so all is good.

And how can we not be skeptical about judging if you have Takahiko Kozuka competing here and he didn't get the highest mark in SS?

I'm sorry I didn't realize your post until now.
I reread my post and I realized that I was a bit too aggressive that night. It's an excuse but someone's post saying figure skating is a sad sport made me very sad and I just couldn't help. I can't hide the fact that I am a Yuzuru fan, but when I write about judging issues, I don't mean to defend my fav but I really wanna defend this sport (though figure skating indeed has judging problems like any other sports).

And, yes, I got your point. To me, 3.60 points difference was quite just regarding Yuzuru's good edge control during spins, and before/after each elements, but I would refrain from such argument here because it's heartbreaking to compare Tatsuki's brilliant performance of his life to others and talk about how he could have improved when we are still in a big sorrow of his retirement

Kozuka's skating is just incredible, of course :love:

I think that Yuzuru and Orser really know well how to appeal to judges, and if Kozuka can show his brilliance of skating with connection to jump or other elements and then I believe he really will get the highest. I believe it's not that far as his jumps seem to become consistent now.

Thank you for replying and sorry that my reply became late

Interspectator · Jan 8, 2015

http://www.jsfresults.com/National/2014-2015/fs_j/national/data0103.pdf
Here are the scores.

Hanyu's elements were beautifully done --except the 3lz but this time without a fall.

Looking at Machida's PCS, he really seemed to be held down in transitions--of all things! He had excellent transitions in the SP so I agree with those who say he was under marked.

2014-15 Japanese Nationals Mens SP

sajoya

Caustica

Violet Bliss

deedee1

merleice

Caustica

FlattFan

Match Penalty

msteach3

BounceAround

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

xabia

Interspectator

HanDomi

silverfoxes

Maofen

Perdita

MIM

ioanna

Perdita

Interspectator

Similar threads

Connect with us