2015 US Nationals Senior Free Dance Jan. 24

Waltzes are sort of conservative and boring, certainly compared to the fiery Latin dances and modern dances. The Shibs are very cute--like Mirai, they are victims of their own cuteness, I think. They can't do anything sexy for obvious reasons, and they look like kids playing dress up when they do a serious ballroom dance. I think they should stick to folk dancing or maybe standards.

My favorite were the zombie/macabre people who were choreographed by Johnny Weir. That was something different and they were very good.

Major kudos to the Shibs for upping their game. They're clawing themselves back up. This gap between them and C/B continues to shrink.

My main problem with their FD is this... it doesn't compare well with their former training partners' waltz program from a few years ago.

I tried to view it mentally isolated from D/W, and I just couldn't.

My favorite team is H/D, but every time I watch their FD, I hate it even more.

While without D/W the free dance lacked a certain omph, it was a good competition. I was surprised by there being only about 5 points between C/B and the Shibs when I was anticipating C/B having a 10+ lead.

To be honest, I prefer the third and fourth place finishers to the top two. I don't mind C/B, and the Shibs seem like they always get the short end of the stick, but I can't bring myself to really get into either of them. H/D's FD is unusual and certainly not the best, but I actually really enjoyed it, just for the sheer fact that it's something different and has some personality. And I'm betting on H/B as the future of US dance- I thought their FD was elegant and soft and right for them, and I could definitely see them growing into a true threat in a season or two. I just adore them, really, and hope they have very successful senior careers ahead.

Mrs. P said:

Actually, I think one of the more interesting programs to me was the Dance Macabre/Young Frankenstein from Cannusico/McManus. Honestly, I think the Shibutanis could look at doing this kind of program. I actually think it was a more classical version of a zombie program (i.e. not like the zombie program by the Germans).

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After watching the last group again just now that one definitely left the biggest impression on me.

bwayrose7 said:

And I'm betting on H/B as the future of US dance- I thought their FD was elegant and soft and right for them, and I could definitely see them growing into a true threat in a season or two. I just adore them, really, and hope they have very successful senior careers ahead.

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I have no doubt about H/B. They keep getting better and better after every competition. Baker said that if your dreams don't scare you, they're not big enough. They dare to dream big and work for it.

thoakun said:

I have no doubt about H/B. They keep getting better and better after every competition. Baker said that if your dreams don't scare you, they're not big enough. They dare to dream big and work for it.

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I totally agree. I noticed them first at the Junior Worlds and they immidiately caught my aatention. I like their Amelie program, very original. And their FD this year gives me similar impression. They still have to improve to sell their SD, but yes, I see them as the future of ice dance.

Finally watched the Shibs. From a layman's view, the Shibs seem to have improved the quality of their skating and Maia was more present and both of them genuinely felt the music. I wonder what type of music would bring out the Shibs's strength? I must say that I discovered the cool videos they made before I know that ice dance existed :hopelessness:and I love their interesting personality but they haven't been able to show it on the ice.

I finally caught up with this and noticed a big improvement in H/D's free dance from the GP. I hated it before, but now I can see more clearly what they're trying to do. I still don't think they've regained their pre-injury sharpness and unison, which they need to really sell this. Their leg lines are not matching. H/D's strongest point is their chemistry and it's muted in this program. Fingers crossed they bring better material next year. At one point, I thought they, the Shibs, and C/B were all about the same level, no matter what the scores reflected.

Watch out for H/B. Seems like they could pass all the medalists.

beki said:

I finally caught up with this and noticed a big improvement in H/D's free dance from the GP. I hated it before, but now I can see more clearly what they're trying to do. I still don't think they've regained their pre-injury sharpness and unison, which they need to really sell this. Their leg lines are not matching. H/D's strongest point is their chemistry and it's muted in this program.

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By "chemistry" do you mean more overtly sexual or steamy? I perceive plenty of chemistry (connection) in the way the two interact to express the character of the music. Here they have to go from flowy, romantic to sharp, aggressive, then to playful, dancey. They match each other's sensibilities seamlessly.

In any case, I really loved their FD at Nationals. The performance level was there, they just came a little short of skating to the best of their ability technically. Revamping two programs and committing all those changes to muscle memory in six weeks is a tall order no matter how talented you are. I'm excited for Worlds.

Well, I've given this some more thought. As I said above, I love H/D, but hate their Free Dance.

Here's why: I agree that it's "current" but perhaps not globally. I can't imagine it would sell well with the Slovenian judge.

And... just because something is current, doesn't mean it's good. It is so hard to judge, but I think we can say that the costuming didn't fit the overall theme of hip-hop... or maybe it did. I didn't notice any saggy pants or backwards ball caps, but maybe that's stereotypical. I don't even know how you'd determine what overall nuances are involved in hip-hop to see if the dance captured the essence.

Flaws aside, and there were plenty, the whole thing looked like it wasn't even skated to the music..;. and being an old fogey, I hated the music, too.

I love this team, but they've been sent a message getting passed over for 4CC, and I hope they take it to heart.

As things stand now, I predict H/B will begin their climb up the Nationals podium, and they'll take that next step in the coming year.

blancanieves said:

By "chemistry" do you mean more overtly sexual or steamy?

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Great question. I'm not sure, but I don't think so—I liked their Titanic and Bohemian Rhapsody programs, and those were more romantic/lyrical than simply sexy. True or not, my impression is that there's less eye contact in this program.

When I think of my favorite hip hop dances, I think of showoff solos, platonic duets, and exciting group numbers. It isn't so much a couple dance. A lot of the movement is mirroring, rather than setting up contrasting (yet complementary) movements between a man and a woman—and Zach and Madi have wrung so much from that tension before. The matching black costumes also play down the contrast between them. I just feel like the program flattens out something really interesting about them.

Of course, if they had presented something too similar to past programs, we would criticize them for playing it safe. Ice dancing is so hard. The program really is everything. Realistically speaking, not every year can be magic.

TontoK said:

Well, I've given this some more thought. As I said above, I love H/D, but hate their Free Dance. Here's why: I agree that it's "current" but perhaps not globally. I can't imagine it would sell well with the Slovenian judge.

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We'll know soon. For whatever is worth, I've come across a lot of fans who love this program and happen to be from outside the U.S. I think sometimes there can be misconceptions about what is welcome domestically vs. internationally.

I don't even know how you'd determine what overall nuances are involved in hip-hop to see if the dance captured the essence. Flaws aside, and there were plenty, the whole thing looked like it wasn't even skated to the music

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The hip-hop "flavored" section is the second musical selection. Proper hip hop in a competitive program is not feasible because you are bound by rules, like time limits on lack of physical contact, staying stationary, etc. An exhibition program would be much easier to pull off. So the style had to be adapted for the constraints of the FD, but its qualities are recognizable in the staccato movement, the details with the arms, the aggressive attitude.

And... just because something is current, doesn't mean it's good.

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It doesn't make it bad either.

It is so hard to judge, but I think we can say that the costuming didn't fit the overall theme of hip-hop... or maybe it did. I didn't notice any saggy pants or backwards ball caps, but maybe that's stereotypical.

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There are three different dance styles showcased in this FD, there is no need for the costumes to say "hip hop" exclusively. Costumes should support the concept of the program and enhance the movement. To anyone familiar with the Baz Luhrman movie, the gold on black design is a recognizable motif, it appeared in posters, record/CD covers, etc. Using this motif is a very succinct way of associating the program with the Great Gatsby film soundtrack, and the fit of the costumes highlights their long lines and the shapes they create.

..;. and being an old fogey, I hated the music, too.

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Obviously I like H/D, but looking at the overall picture: music, choreography, references, it works for me. I enjoy the fresh approach and look, but at the core, the FD concept was to highlight the team's dancing ability and versatility, and it does exactly that.

Yes, beki, you have nailed it!

That why I dislike this FD so much. It is missing the sweet romantic connection between the Zach and Madi. That's what makes them such a likable couple.

I want to see more of that.

TontoK said:

Yes, beki, you have nailed it!

That why I dislike this FD so much. It is missing the sweet romantic connection between the Zach and Madi. That's what makes them such a likable couple.

I want to see more of that.

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On the other hand, playing devil's advocate, I can see why they broke out of the mold. They could just as easily be accused of being "one-note" like the Shibutanis has received for their FD had they did something similar to last year's FD.

I think it's an interesting program but they need to work on the execution -- a good hip hop dance, to me, is controlled chaos. I felt they might have leaned too close to chaos. Maybe with more control the program will be more cohesive.

Maybe the program is "Baz Luhrman's Great Gatsby"-themed, not hip-hop themed. But I haven't seen the movie, and the music mashup isn't creating coherent characters outside the context of the movie, unlike Ashley's Moulin Rouge program. The problem may be that the program is disjointed, not the dance or musical style. I've seen other people say they'd have been better off just picking one or two of the songs they used, and I agree with that.