2015 Four Continents Men's Free Skate Feb 13 Seoul Time | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2015 Four Continents Men's Free Skate Feb 13 Seoul Time

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
And if you want to consider the bright side of the situation, it's that the men had more skaters who qualified for 4CC in the first place. The reason the other fields don't have to make cuts is because not enough skaters received the technical scores to qualify.

Let's look at the countries who have skaters here:

Men:
Argentina
Australia (2)
Canada (3)
China (3)
Chinese Taipei (aka Taiwan) (2)
Hong Kong (2)
Japan (3)
Kazakhstan
Malaysia
Philippines (I know he WD, but technically he qualified)
Republic of Korea (i.e. South Korea ) (3)
USA (3)
Uzbekistan

Total athletes: 27 Total countries: 13. Continents represented 3 (Americas, Australia, Asia)

Compare that to the ladies field
Australia (2)
Brazil
Canada (3)
China
Mexico
Japan (3)
Philippines (2)
Republic of Korea (3)
USA (3)

Total athletes: 19 Total countries: 9 Continents represented 3 (Americas, Australia, Asia)

Pairs
Canada (3)
China (3)
Japan
USA (3)

Total pairs: 10 Total countries 4 Continents represented 2 (Americas, Asia)

Dance
Canada (3)
China (3)
Japan (2) (Reeds WD but qualified)
Kazakhstan
Mexico
Republic of Korea
USA

Total dance pairs: 14 Total countries 7 Continents represented 2 (Americas, Asia)


So yes it's a bummer that there's a cutoff, but I think it's so cool there's a lot more men who qualified in the first place!
 
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Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Er, Mrs. P, a few small counting errors: 26 Men, 12 Dance pairs, and for Pairs, 10 pairs = 20 athletes. I see what can happen to a sleep deprived pregnant woman. ;)

Seriously, I wonder if Men's is becoming more popular than Ladies' outside of Europe.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Er, Mrs. P, a few small counting errors: 26 Men, 12 Dance pairs, and for Pairs, 10 pairs = 20 athletes. I see what can happen to a sleep deprived pregnant woman. ;)

Seriously, I wonder if Men's is becoming more popular than Ladies' outside of Europe.

I included the ones that withdrew from the competition, i.e. Michael Christian Martinez in men for the 27 number, the Reeds and Zhang/Wu in Dance. They still qualified for the competition though they did not compete (or had to W/D halfway through in the case of Zhang/Wu).

I meant to write pairs for pairs..but wrote too fast. That's the only sleep-deprive pregnancy brain mistake, I think!
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
And again, I for one don't blame the ISU for sticking to its rule that applies across the board to all ISU championships.
The skaters know that they have to place in the top twenty-four in the SP to qualify for the FS.
It really is no more cruel (IMO) to adhere to the rule in this case than at any another competition that has more than twenty-four entries.

But in a competition where NO OTHER division is having a cut? And the men are cutting only two?


ETA: If you are wondering whether one of my favorites ever has missed the cut, the answer is Yes. Liam Firus in Sochi. I was very sad for him, but he (and all others who were cut) knew the rules before the SP.

Yes, but at Sochi, even after Plushy's withdrawal, there were still five to be cut. So even though I was utterly shattered that Brendan not only had to suffer the pain of being cut, but the total indignity of being last, I understood it as a legitimate cut.

Cutting only two - and it's not like they were stone-cold last by twenty points, the difference between Andrew and the 24th placed guy was four points - still seems completely unnecessary and totally mean.

Perhaps all the more so because if a top-country skater had made the same mistakes Andrew had, THEY would not have been in danger of being cut.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
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Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
Er, Mrs. P, a few small counting errors: 26 Men, 12 Dance pairs, and for Pairs, 10 pairs = 20 athletes. I see what can happen to a sleep deprived pregnant woman. ;)

Seriously, I wonder if Men's is becoming more popular than Ladies' outside of Europe.

For right now, I'd say the answer is yes. Public focus and popularity of individual disciplines seems like it would follow to where fans find the most magnetic personalities, greatest performers, most compelling rivalries.

Right now, that's the men. IMO.

It's not as though the men have giants clashing... Yuna and Mao type rivalries, but they do have some great personalities and good performers.
 

satine

v Yuki Ishikawa v
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Joined
Feb 13, 2014
For right now, I'd say the answer is yes. Public focus and popularity of individual disciplines seems like it would follow to where fans find the most magnetic personalities, greatest performers, most compelling rivalries.

Right now, that's the men. IMO.

It's not as though the men have giants clashing... Yuna and Mao type rivalries, but they do have some great personalities and good performers.

I agree. Whether I'm more into Ladies or Men varies each season, as it depends entirely on who makes up each field. This season, it's the guys, last season it was not.
 

Ophelia

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Joined
Dec 6, 2013
It's not as though the men have giants clashing... Yuna and Mao type rivalries, but they do have some great personalities and good performers.

Just wait until Chan's back next year. The Hanyu vs Chan wars are going to be heated.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
Better late than never -- OP updated with link to Live results and starting order.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
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Country
United-States
Just wait until Chan's back next year. The Hanyu vs Chan wars are going to be heated.

I hope Patrick does come back, but I'm not holding my breath. Like V/M and D/W, I think the constant year-on-year daily grind might lose its appeal once you've stepped away from it.

I would love to be wrong in all cases, but for now, I'll believe it when I see it.
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Tonight's/tomorrow's goal: go to bed, get a few hours of sleep, wake up for the last two groups. Let's hope I do it better than I did for the SP, when I woke up in time for Josh but fell asleep while they were resurfacing the ice.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I hope Patrick does come back, but I'm not holding my breath. Like V/M and D/W, I think the constant year-on-year daily grind might lose its appeal once you've stepped away from it.

I would love to be wrong in all cases, but for now, I'll believe it when I see it.

I would agree with you -- except that Patrick seems really motivated in his interviews. For another thing, his answer has been very definitive -- I WILL COME BACK IN 2015! While V/M and D/W have been much more vague. Also given the field in Canada, he would be welcomed with open arms!
 

makaihime

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
I'm sure that Patrick will be back next season...as for 2018, I'm a little less sure about that even though he has said that it was his goal. It would probably depend on how he does first.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Or keep it simple: in events where a cut would result in four or fewer skaters being cut, there will be no cut.

But in a competition where NO OTHER division is having a cut? And the men are cutting only two?




Yes, but at Sochi, even after Plushy's withdrawal, there were still five to be cut. So even though I was utterly shattered that Brendan not only had to suffer the pain of being cut, but the total indignity of being last, I understood it as a legitimate cut.

Cutting only two - and it's not like they were stone-cold last by twenty points, the difference between Andrew and the 24th placed guy was four points - still seems completely unnecessary and totally mean.

Perhaps all the more so because if a top-country skater had made the same mistakes Andrew had, THEY would not have been in danger of being cut.

Agree to disagree, karne. It's an unfortunate outcome for the two men, but nothing mean-spirited, IMO.

I understand that you feel terrible about Dodds (and my opinion certainly is not meant as anything personal against him) -- but it was not so long ago, in the case of U.S. Nats (unrelated to a FS cutoff), that you spoke up forcefully on behalf of the event organizers. I believe that it would be fair to say that your position was that the Greensboro organizers had more important things to do than to make the the practice schedule and practice groups available to loyal fans (until about thirty-six hours before the event started).

This time, it's my turn to speak up for the Four Continents organizers. ;) I would say that they have more important things to do than to worry about granting special privileges to those who did not qualify -- per ISU rules -- for the FS.
You're basically asking Four Continents to add another group for their sake.
So where does the slippery slope end? If the rules were rewritten to allow wiggle room for up to another four skaters beyond the original twenty-four, what would happen when a competition has twenty-nine or thirty entries? Another outcry, etc., etc.
 

Watermelondrea

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Agree to disagree, karne. It's an unfortunate outcome for the two men, but nothing mean-spirited, IMO.

I understand that you feel terrible about Dodds (and my opinion certainly is not meant as anything personal against him) -- but it was not so long ago, in the case of U.S. Nats (unrelated to a FS cutoff), that you spoke up forcefully on behalf of the event organizers. I believe that it would be fair to say that your position was that the Greensboro organizers had more important things to do than to make the the practice schedule and practice groups available to loyal fans (until about thirty-six hours before the event started).

This time, it's my turn to speak up for the Four Continents organizers. ;) I would say that they have more important things to do than to worry about granting special privileges to those who did not qualify -- per ISU rules -- for the FS.
You're basically asking Four Continents to add another group for their sake.
So where does the slippery slope end? If the rules were rewritten to allow wiggle room for up to another four skaters beyond the original twenty-four, what would happen when a competition has twenty-nine or thirty entries? Another outcry, etc., etc.

Great points made here, and this should finish this. Like someone else said above, these skaters come in knowing what they have to do, and know not to expect special treatment. It only motivates them to work harder. If they were given special treatment, it's like giving a participation ribbon or something
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
I went to watch the men's practice this afternoon, and my thought is, it is still an open game. No one is particularly outstandingly good or horribly bad, everyone was kind of normal. So I think the Free Skate is still unpredictable.

I am saying it because I knew Denis was going to nail the SP after watching his practice the day before. He was literally killing every single element, and performed with musicality and artistry (even though it was only practice). Similar to GPF, after watching Hanyu's extraordinary practice I knew he was going to kill it. So I am predicting from how the practice went, and I predict nothing:p

The men? Unpredictable? NO WAY!!! ;)

So what if the nervous tic I developed during the Grand Prix series is entirely due to them (and just healing now)...

They certainly bring the :drama: AND the :hopelessness:
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
The men? Unpredictable? NO WAY!!! ;)

So what if the nervous tic I developed during the Grand Prix series is entirely due to them (and just healing now)...

They certainly bring the :drama: AND the :hopelessness:

They have one last chance to get back on your Christmas card list. :laugh:
 

ruffledgrouse

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
The men? Unpredictable? NO WAY!!! ;)

So what if the nervous tic I developed during the Grand Prix series is entirely due to them (and just healing now)...

They certainly bring the :drama: AND the :hopelessness:

I was telling my friend earlier, "Those of us who choose to stan the American men, choose to live dangerously."
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
And if you want to consider the bright side of the situation, it's that the men had more skaters who qualified for 4CC in the first place. The reason the other fields don't have to make cuts is because not enough skaters received the technical scores to qualify.

Let's look at the countries who have skaters here:

Men: ...
Total athletes: 27 Total countries: 13. Continents represented 3 (Americas, Australia, Asia)

Compare that to the ladies field ....
Total athletes: 19 Total countries: 9 Continents represented 3 (Americas, Australia, Asia)

Pairs ...
Total pairs: 10 Total countries 4 Continents represented 2 (Americas, Asia)

Dance ...
Total dance pairs: 14 Total countries 7 Continents represented 2 (Americas, Asia)


So yes it's a bummer that there's a cutoff, but I think it's so cool there's a lot more men who qualified in the first place!

Forgot to thank you earlier for this post, Mrs. P :).
 
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