Team U.S.A Fan Page

kwanette · Apr 3, 2015

karne said:
Um, I think we might have different ideas of what "doing well" entails.

Max didn't get any favours last year. A favour would have been putting him on the Olympic team in someone else's place. Selecting him for Worlds fit perfectly with the USFSA's published selection criteria, as has been discussed here. Max met more of the criteria than Jason did at that point and at any rate I honestly believe that the USFSA thought that Jeremy was going to call it quits after the Olympics.

This is such a stupid discussion. If you gave Max the option of trading his Worlds place last year for the Olympics, and trading his WTT place this year for Worlds, I'd wager he'd do it in a heartbeat.

Anyone who has ever followed Jeremy's career or tweets knew that he would never give up a chance to compete in Japan. If USFS thought he was going to quit after the OLY they are dumber than I thought.

While Max seemed happy to be named to last yr's Worlds Team, I always felt that USFS was using both him and Denny/Coughlin. You're not good enough to get all of the glory of the OLY, but we need you to maintain spots. USFS is always happy to manipulate its use of criteria to have the outcome it wants.

ice coverage · Apr 3, 2015

Team USA alternates:

The Shibutanis
Denney/Frazier
Rippon
Edmunds

http://www.isuresults.com/events/fsevent00051616.htm

IleK · Apr 3, 2015

karne said:
Um, I think we might have different ideas of what "doing well" entails.

Max didn't get any favours last year. A favour would have been putting him on the Olympic team in someone else's place. Selecting him for Worlds fit perfectly with the USFSA's published selection criteria, as has been discussed here. Max met more of the criteria than Jason did at that point and at any rate I honestly believe that the USFSA thought that Jeremy was going to call it quits after the Olympics.

This is such a stupid discussion. If you gave Max the option of trading his Worlds place last year for the Olympics, and trading his WTT place this year for Worlds, I'd wager he'd do it in a heartbeat.

Yes, we do have different ideas. Is that wrong? I don't think so. And there is nothing stupid in anything written on this thread. Every skater deserves someone to stand up for him. I do that for Adam, now, not always because I am not the classic fan, I tend to be critic about those that I like. If he doesn't do good than I'm mad at him. He is not a consistent skater, but nor is Max. I gave up on Adam so many times. There is no time and place to write about this here. If Max was in Adam's shoes right now this discussion would be any less stupid? Be a fan, be glad for Max, defend him but don't call this discussion stupid. As in everything else someone is sad and somebody's happy. Adam is sad.

katmari · Apr 3, 2015

The skaters who contributed points toward the World Team Trophy qualification are listed on page 2 of the ISU qualifications standing details sheet:

ISU Grand Prix:
Jason Brown
Richard Dornbush
Max Aaron

ISU Championships:
Jason Brown
Adam Rippon

Jason is also the #1 American in the ISU World Standings and was a given to be selected.

The selection of the second male was a toss up between Richard Dornbush, Max Aaron and Adam Rippon. Placement at US Nationals is not a criteria for selection, just as it wasn't last year when Max was selected over Jason for the World Championships. For all we know the USFS put the three names in a hat and Max won.

It makes sense that Max was chosen though since internationally he is the #2 American in the ISU World Standings.

Skatefan15 · Apr 3, 2015

Glad that Max is on the team, last time he was on there they won. Hopefully they can do the same this year. Can't wait to see Moulin Rouge from Ashley one more time. I'm so happy Max and Jason were chosen, they both deserve it.

andromache · Apr 3, 2015

Yes, there are published rules. However, the precedent in the US is to follow the order of the medalists at Nationals. When USFSA chooses not to follow the order of the medalists at Nationals, they issue a statement (as in the case of Mirai and Ashley last year.) They are breaking precedent without explanation and demonstrating a lack of support for their Nationals and Worlds #2 and we are speculating as to why. I think many of us would be doing the same thing if Max had placed 2nd at Nationals, was US #2 at Worlds, and was getting replaced at the last event of the season.

ice coverage · Apr 3, 2015

andromache said:
Yes, there are published rules. However, the precedent in the US is to follow the order of the medalists at Nationals. When USFSA chooses not to follow the order of the medalists at Nationals, they issue a statement (as in the case of Mirai and Ashley last year.) They are breaking precedent without explanation and demonstrating a lack of support for their Nationals and Worlds #2 and we are speculating as to why. I think many of us would be doing the same thing if Max had placed 2nd at Nationals, was US #2 at Worlds, and was getting replaced at the last event of the season.

But ... USFS rules/customs for selection of the Worlds team do not automatically carry over to WTT.

I will repeat the example that I noted above:

In 2012, USFS sent Gracie Gold to WTT.
Gracie was the junior national champ and the silver medalist at junior worlds.

Did Gracie's selection in 2012 cause unhappiness among skating fans?

andromache · Apr 3, 2015

golden411 said:
But ... USFS rules/customs for selection of the Worlds team do not automatically carry over to WTT.

I will repeat the example that I noted above:

In 2012, USFS sent Gracie Gold to WTT.
Gracie was the junior national champ and the silver medalist at junior worlds.

Did Gracie's selection in 2012 cause unhappiness among skating fans?

Did it? I have no idea. I wasn't active in online skating fandom as an undergrad.

Looking at the Worlds results from 2012, the US silver medalist Alissa Czisny placed 22nd at Worlds. The situations do not seem comparable. Had Adam placed 22nd at Worlds this year (or even behind Josh) the current situation would be more similar to 2012.

ice coverage · Apr 3, 2015

andromache said:
Did it? I have no idea. I wasn't active in online skating fandom as an undergrad.

Looking at the Worlds results from 2012, the US silver medalist Alissa Czisny placed 22nd at Worlds. The situations do not seem comparable. Had Adam placed 22nd at Worlds this year (or even behind Josh) the current situation would be more similar to 2012.

True that Czisny had a low placement at Worlds (and as an off-topic aside, I think she was injured).
But ... Czisny's circumstances still would not sufficiently explain the selection of Gold -- according to your logic (of going by placement at Nats). Why not give the second 2012 WTT slot to the senior bronze medalist at Nats?? Or the senior pewter medalist??

IMO, a case could have been made for the second WTT slot to go to Max, Adam, Josh, Jeremy, or Ricky.
Adam is the alternate, so the USFS International Committee must have given him serious consideration.

Interspectator · Apr 3, 2015

The selection process for US men is going to make folks unhappy no matter which guy you pick. Isn't there a compelling argument for sending any one of the top 5? Could it be the American Skating Federation are not evil or clueless but simply picked the one they thought would be best for the job? I don't have much inside knowledge of federations or anything. It's a question that I've often wondered though.

andromache · Apr 3, 2015

golden411 said:
True that Czisny had a low placement at Worlds (and as an off-topic aside, I think she was injured).
But ... Czisny's circumstances still would not sufficiently explain the selection of Gold -- according to your logic (of going by placement at Nats). Why not give the second 2012 WTT slot to the senior bronze medalist at Nats?? Or the senior pewter medalist??

IMO, a case could have been made for the second WTT slot to go to Max, Adam, Josh, Jeremy, or Ricky.
Adam is the alternate, so the USFS International Committee must have given him serious consideration.

My logic is based on both placement at Nationals and backing up that placement at Worlds. Adam did that. Like I said, if he had placed 22nd, I wouldn't bother with this line of conversation. Alissa didn't back up her Nationals placement, and neither did the senior ladies 3rd and 4th in 2012 because neither went to Worlds. Gracie, OTOH, won silver at Junior Worlds. It was a very weak year for the US senior ladies. If the US senior men this year were as weak (they're not, so this is a huge hypothetical) and Nathan Chen had won silver or gold at Junior Worlds, a case could be made for him as well. And under the current circumstances, if Adam and Josh had both bombed at Worlds, I certainly wouldn't find Max's selection puzzling.

Congratulations to Max for being named to the team. He'll be a great teammate and a ton of fun to watch in KnC. I bear no ill-will towards him or his skating. (And I feel like I need to say that so I'm not called a hater for even having this discussion.) I'm simply trying to explain why myself and others are somewhat confused by the decision.

Can't wait to see the competition and I'm hoping for more gorgeous performances from the ladies especially! Though I'm sure Ashley and Gracie will be kicking themselves if they put together two clean performances here. :drama:

ice coverage · Apr 3, 2015

Newbiespectator said:
The selection process for US men is going to make folks unhappy no matter which guy you pick. Isn't there a compelling argument for sending any one of the top 5? Could it be the American Skating Federation are not evil or clueless but simply picked the one they thought would be best for the job? I don't have much inside knowledge of federations or anything. It's a question that I've often wondered though.

:agree: I agree with you completely, NS.

andromache said:
My logic is based on both placement at Nationals and backing up that placement at Worlds. Adam did that. Like I said, if he had placed 22nd, I wouldn't bother with this line of conversation. Alissa didn't back up her Nationals placement, and neither did the senior ladies 3rd and 4th in 2012 because neither went to Worlds. Gracie, OTOH, won silver at Junior Worlds. It was a very weak year for the US senior ladies. If the US senior men this year were as weak (they're not, so this is a huge hypothetical) and Nathan Chen had won silver or gold at Junior Worlds, a case could be made for him as well. And under the current circumstances, if Adam and Josh had both bombed at Worlds, I certainly wouldn't find Max's selection puzzling. ...

We'll never know for sure what would have happened if Czisny had placed in top ten at Worlds, and had been injury-free.
But I think it's possible that USFS would have sent Gracie to WTT regardless. As you said, her success as a junior that season had gotten the attention of a lot of media and fans.
My point is that USFS has used its discretion to make such decisions in the past -- and it continues to do so.
[I must say that the notion that the 2012 U.S. ladies silver and bronze medalists had nothing to show from Worlds strikes me as a meaningless argument against them -- well, duh, they did not have the chance to compete at Worlds. YMMV.]

(I will add that I am not an Adam hater.
If he [or Josh or Jeremy or Ricky] were going to WTT this year, I would not be gnashing my teeth. And I would wish the guy well. But I still would believe that a reasonable case also could have been made for Max.)

semosk8tfan · Apr 3, 2015

Wow, if this is the Team USA fan page, I would not want to read a haters page! Good luck to the skaters. I am looking forward to their K&C antics and seeing their programs one more time

ice coverage · Apr 3, 2015

Skatefan15 said:
Glad that Max is on the team, last time he was on there they won. Hopefully they can do the same this year. Can't wait to see Moulin Rouge from Ashley one more time. I'm so happy Max and Jason were chosen, they both deserve it.

Your first post, Skatefan15?

Thanks for joining us at GS and in this thread

.

Mrs. P · Apr 3, 2015

semosk8tfan said:
Wow, if this is the Team USA fan page, I would not want to read a haters page! Good luck to the skaters. I am looking forward to their K&C antics and seeing their programs one more time

No joke, right!

I agree! I hope to see a perfect FS from Jason, namely. He's come so close this season.

But in general hope for a good showing from all of Team USA!!

shiroKJ · Apr 3, 2015

I'm happy that Max got the spot :cheer:

You can't please everyone and while I do adore Adam, I did feel terrible for max after Nationals since he wasn't assigned to anything at all....

Here's hoping everyone does well and have fun!~

doze · Apr 3, 2015

It is what it is. Now can we be supportive of them now?

StitchMonkey · Apr 3, 2015

Newbiespectator said:
The selection process for US men is going to make folks unhappy no matter which guy you pick. Isn't there a compelling argument for sending any one of the top 5? Could it be the American Skating Federation are not evil or clueless but simply picked the one they thought would be best for the job? I don't have much inside knowledge of federations or anything. It's a question that I've often wondered though.

I think it has less to do with who they think is best, and more just trying to support multiple skaters. I view this as USFSA is supportive of Jason, Josh, Max and Adam, and I really don't see anything wrong with that at all. I think it is great we have four men the federation wants to support, and I think they should support more than one or two people. I have said before, all three that went to 4CC this year kind of needed to go this year, which is not the norm. Normally Max would have likely got a 4CC spot, but because the others needed to go, he got WTT instead. It is not that weird, for them to support the pewter medalist with something post nationals. It just played out differently this year.

Jammers · Apr 3, 2015

golden411 said:
True that Czisny had a low placement at Worlds (and as an off-topic aside, I think she was injured).
But ... Czisny's circumstances still would not sufficiently explain the selection of Gold -- according to your logic (of going by placement at Nats). Why not give the second 2012 WTT slot to the senior bronze medalist at Nats?? Or the senior pewter medalist??

IMO, a case could have been made for the second WTT slot to go to Max, Adam, Josh, Jeremy, or Ricky.
Adam is the alternate, so the USFS International Committee must have given him serious consideration.

Agnes and Caroline declined to go to WTT back in 2012 if i remember right. So no doubt the USFS thought what the heck lets send Gracie since it would have been good experience to skate as a first time Senior against the top Senior Ladies in a non pressure event and plus the USFS saw Gold as the future.

KKonas · Apr 3, 2015

Win or not, I hope all the skaters have a good time at WTT.

Team U.S.A Fan Page

kwanette

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IleK

katmari

Skatefan15

andromache

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andromache

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Interspectator

andromache

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semosk8tfan

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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

shiroKJ

Back to the forest you go.

doze

StitchMonkey

Jammers

KKonas

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