Bloc Judging

Joesitz (RIP) · May 20, 2004

Western Bloc judging doesn't exist. The Nordic countries have some language in common but they are quite independent of each other with Denmark leaning toward Eastern Europe.

Nobody but nobody loves the americans.

The French have minds of their own. Finland and Germany will also mark according to their standards.

The Asians are not together in judging.

Sorry, it is only the former Soviet bloc which speaks an intimate language and has cultural ties I am not speaking fraud here. It's just they all have the same tastes.

I'm hoping the judging secrecy is removed so we can see if I am wrong. Trust me, I'll admit if if I am:

lulu · May 20, 2004

Joesitz said:
Nobody but nobody loves the americans.

Nobody loves the Americans? How would you explain all of the World titles American athletes have won over the years? Certainly they could not have won without at least a few votes from the so-called Soviet/Russian "block"

Joesitz (RIP) · May 21, 2004

Whoops - wrong thread.

millyskate · May 22, 2004

The eurovision song contest is not a song contest. The only people that take it at all half seriously are the people who wish to make a political stand with their vote: smaller european countries who want to show their influence. They kind of enjoy putting france, england ect at the back of the pack for fun, and why not. In France for the last few years they have had commentators making fun of the thing all the way through. Even the competitors know that's it's a joke.

Americans have no friends? What about Canada?

thvudragon · May 22, 2004

SusanBeth said:
ETA Sarah being placed [by 1 judge] 10th in the short and 4th in the long wasn't exactly a hallmark of fairness either.

And many agree with Tatiana Danilenko's ordinals. How Hughes was 4th with that awful SP is beyond me. She SHOULD have been 10th IMO heading into the LP.

TV

SusanBeth · May 22, 2004

Many, many more would disagree with that. In fact all the other judges did.

thvudragon · May 22, 2004

SusanBeth said:
Many, many more would disagree with that. In fact all the other judges did.

And that, Ladies and Gentleman, is the subjectivity of Figure Skating. There is no right or wrong answer, just opinions.

TV

SusanBeth · May 22, 2004

Of course, there are few absolutes in skating. That's what makes the sport so vulnerable to bad judging.

Mathman · May 23, 2004

One thing that stands out in the statistics posted by Koroleva is this: In the data under review, the judges from every single country -- 100% of the countries in the study -- placed the skaters from their own country higher than the majority of the panel did. Call it cheating, patriotism or human nature, to me this really hurts the image of figure skating as a serious sport where superior performances are rewarded with top prizes. Even without specific judging scandals, the casual viewer can't help but be left with the impression that cronyism and politics rule the day.

I hope that the CoP will be a step in the right direction to dispell that perception.

Mathman

berthes ghost · May 24, 2004

Mathman, in Eurovision the countires are not allowed to vote for themselves, but still the accusations of "bloc judging" persist. As millyskate said, the commentators treat it like a joke (which it pretty much is). For example, when Monico was voting the BBC commentator kept making jokes about their top votes going to France as a forgone conclusion, and Voila, they gave France top points, like they do every year.

IMHO, just because EE bloc judging is "cultural" rather than "political" doesn't make it any better. These judges go to training seminars etc.. and are suppose to be educated experts on the sport. Heck, if it was OK to just vote for whose style you liked because it was familiar, any Joe Bozo off the street could be called in the arena at random to judge worlds, not career judges from the balkans.

icenut84 · May 24, 2004

Joesitz said:
How many judges were there? What were their nationalities?

Maybe the comptition was a slam dunk for Irina *she is a first rate competitor) and the Russian judge was in a position to show how non-biased he is? or

was the Russian judge incompetent?

I'd have to watch the tape again to compare performances/check judges nationalities, but IIRC it was close. I think there were 5 or 7 judges. Maybe the Russian judge was marking fairly and put Irina in second because he/she was of the opinion that Malinina was better, while the other judges were also marking fairly and put Irina ahead because they thought she was the best. There are differences of opinion all the time, especially in close competitions - it doesn't automatically mean anyone is incompetant or cheating.

I'll watch my tape again to see more specifics.

euterpe · May 24, 2004

IIRC, '99 was Irina's 'Annus Horribilis'. She had gained weight and was having a lot of trouble landing her jumps. She finished 4th at Russian Nationals in both '98 and '99 and was not sent to '99 Europeans or Worlds. That may have been the reason why the Russian judge was hard on her.

Bloc Judging

Joesitz (RIP)

lulu

Joesitz (RIP)

millyskate

thvudragon

SusanBeth

thvudragon

SusanBeth

Mathman

berthes ghost

icenut84

euterpe

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