2015 World Team Trophy Short Dance Apr 16

alebi said:

no, they HAD to do a new season best, or Megan coudn't use her posters

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Megan Duhamel is a champion.. Respect

My internet died just as Weaver/Poje were about to get their scores. But, it's back now.

So, who is that couple on the ice now? Whoever they are, they are pretty good! (Well, as much as you can tell from a distant camera! )

CaroLiza_fan

alebi said:

skaters aren't the richest athletes in the World, while FS is one of the most expensive sport.... I think this is a good opportunity for skaters

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I know.

I'm living in Germany and follow (the decline of) German figure skating (some due to lack of funding)

alebi said:

no, they HAD to do a new season best, or Megan coudn't use her posters

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No wonder they did so well. I'd be scared of Megan, too.

JK, she seems like a sweetheart. A very intense sweetheart.

WrongEdge said:

She certainly does. But those glasses gave her a very special look, more so than Morgan.

I don't know what the athletes actually think about the WTT at the end of the season. Their opinion matters most, imho. The few opinions I heard were rather positive, but I don't know if they were just pc or their actual opinions. How much can they talk freely about it when they are scheduled to participate?

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I think it's a bit like post-Olympics Worlds: those who have something to prove tend to do better, whereas for those who earned the big prize it can be a bit more difficult to re-focus.
They're all professionals, though, so I think in the end they take it as more competition experience, and a bit of fun.

text_skate said:

I know.

I'm living in Germany and follow (the decline of) German figure skating (some due to lack of funding)

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I am hopeful one day Germany will rise again to be a strong skating nation.

Could someone explain me I/Z levels?

From 34 in TES to 29 here...

lady_bee said:

Where are American & Canadian boys?
It seems ladies have stronger nerves then men, as always

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Eric Radford has been in the hospital with food poisoning - this doesn't sound promising. That's why you won't find him.

MsLiinaLii said:

Could someone explain me I/Z levels?

From 34 in TES to 29 here...

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After Short Dance there was a crazy mood at Russian Forums, people were asking what happened, why Lena & Ruslan got soo low score although they were very good (or great in meaning of many people), why is their score so small in comparison with top 3 couples.

I was also very curious, so I jumped on videos and started to compare all couple’s mistakes and an imperfections…

Lena & Ruslan:

Step Sequence Level 2:
Chocktaw – great…
Counter – very good, especially opening edge was to die for…
One Foot Section:
…Rocker – great – lovely opening edge…
…Counter – great opening edge, visible second edge, but Ruslan’s change of edge goes through the heel of blade – this his turn shouldn’t be counted…
…Bracket – good…
…Double Twizzle – great…
Chocktaw – great opening edge, good second edge…
Double Twizzles – very good…
Rocker – very good…
Chocktaw – very good…

Overall if Ruslan wouldn’t execute wrong change of edge in Counter during One Foot Section, this execution would be Level 4 without any doubts…being strict it should be Level 3 and GOE +3 from all judges, nobody is executing better turns (with exception of Ruslan’s Counter). And those edges…they are the couple with the deepest edges and the best knee work in current Ice Dance.

Some Russian fans are persisting on saying that Lena & Ruslan are missing perfect synchro…yes, their arm positions in steps are sometimes not identical, but only sometimes and the rest is great and in very good synchro…

Then I started to notice “perfect synchro“ with couples who skate many years together…
Andrew & Kaitlyn –
Madison & Evan –
Gabriella & Guillaume –
…they all have moments and in case of French many moments with out of synchro moves especially arm positions, in case of French also free leg positions…did any judges put some deductions to them because of it? No.

Twizzle Level 3:
…great and definitely with best ice coverage in first Set, but in the third Set Ruslan executed last rotation in Twizzle without moving forward, so it could be counted like a Piruette – not surprising that Technical panel who undeservedly put down Level in Steps catches this opportunity to put down another Level, this time there was at least a reason…

Paso Doble:
…Ruslan didn’t got counted his Key Point 2 – unfortunately video showed this step not in detail, so it is hard to tell, but it looked OK to me, but Technical panel surely had better shot whether everything was OK or not…
…Ruslan didn’t get counted also second Key Point 2 – his slide steps especially second one were not too sure…
…Lena got Timing issue in second Key Point 3…this is funny thing because in reality the only lady who was able to execute good timing in Key Point 3 (Open Mohawk is executed in both Key Points 3 by lady) was Madison, but only in her second Key Point 3…in rules there is written that in Open Mohawk second edge on Left Backward Inside edge must be executed between count 4 and 1 (definitely after count 3)…but all ladies – Lena, Kaitlyn, Gabriella were executing second edge in last step on count 3 = too soon…surprisingly all ladies got this Key Point counted while the only Lena got Timing issue…and the most funny thing - also Madison got Timing issue - in case when she was OK in Timing during second Key Point 3…

If somebody would like to explain me why the couple with such edges - - gets so low Skating Skills, only 8.29 points…I would really like to know.

Gabriella & Guillaume:

Paso Doble:
…both Key Points 1 – both partners were not perfect in slide steps, Gabriella’s step 10 on Left Backward Outside edge and next step 11 on Right Backward Outside edge – both edges were light, Guillaume had a light edge in step 10 as well…but Key Points were counted…

Step Sequence:
…not good camera view, but it is visible that edges are light and in my opinion some edges were missing, Guillaume executed wrong first Double Twizzle going too forward on blade and stratching the ice…

Kaitlyn & Andrew:

Step Sequence:
…some edges light, some edges good, nice change of edges, one wrong Double Twizzles from Andrew (second Double Twizzle in steps)

Twizzles:
…not full 4 rotation with leg position in First Set – this should be counted for Level 3 only…
…once again Andrew’s strange second Set – with first rotation in deep knee and next rotation with more straight knee…

Madison & Evan:

Paso Doble:
…I don’t like so much when count 1 in steps is not done on the main beat, but sure there is no deduction for this…
…second Key Point 3 – Madison put her Left backward Inside edge on wrong place – it must be placed at the inner side of the skating foot – Madison put it far from it, next to heel of skating blade – this Key Point shouldn’t be counted…

Step Sequence:
…some light edges, some good edges, few very good edges…
…One Foot Section with not visible edges work thanks to camera…

So if Technical panel was so strict to Lena & Ruslan putting them Levels down for every smaller mistake, then they should also put down…
…Level in Twizzle for W&P…
…Levels for Key Points 3 for Timing issues in case of P&C and W&P, one Timing issue for C&B…
…Level down because second Key Point 3 in case of C&B was wrongly executed…
…re-watch Step Sequence and Key Point 1 for P&C because of light edges…
…BUT panel should count Step Sequence Level 3 for I&Z…Level down in Step Sequence for Lena & Ruslan was not fair, there was no reason for it.

So once again some couples are excused while Lena & Ruslan are punished for imperfection…then we have such big difference in Element Score…

As to presentation…I liked W&P the most, they were great today, it was a very strong performance as to dance quality. Second best were I&Z, they can be sharper in moves, but still they had tones of passion and great Spanish dance execution. P&C were very good, but I don’t take Guillaume’s romantic presentation of Paso Doble/Spanish dance. C&B had better presentation in comparison with World Championships in my opinion but I refuse to admit that Spanish dance style is the same like Chicago and Cabaret dance style, although Madison is very good in such style.

Why I&Z got 3 point lower Component score then top 3 couples is another question…
I&Z with perfect edges and technique got 8.29 points fot Skating Skills, while Gabriella had one small stumble in Step Sequence and one big stumble at the end of the program – and P&C gets 8.82 points for Skating Skills…C&B for light edges gets 9.11 points for Skating Skills.

Another Component marks are also questionable as well.

GOE for Step Sequence for top 3 couples +2.20 points…for I&Z +1.73 points only.
GOE for Paso Doble parts – top 3 couples over +1 or a little bit under +1…I&Z +0.69 and +0.51 points…
GOE for Twizzles for top 2 couples +1.20 and +1.54 points…for I&Z +1.03 points…

Well, I am really not surprised that people are shocked with marks for top 4 couples, it was not good job from Technical panel and judges.

sisinka said:

After Short Dance there was a crazy mood at Russian Forums, people were asking what happened, why Lena & Ruslan got soo low score although they were very good (or great in meaning of many people), why is their score so small in comparison with top 3 couples.

I was also very curious, so I jumped on videos and started to compare all couple’s mistakes and an imperfections…

Lena & Ruslan:

Step Sequence Level 2:
Chocktaw – great…
Counter – very good, especially opening edge was to die for…
One Foot Section:
…Rocker – great – lovely opening edge…
…Counter – great opening edge, visible second edge, but Ruslan’s change of edge goes through the heel of blade – this his turn shouldn’t be counted…
…Bracket – good…
…Double Twizzle – great…
Chocktaw – great opening edge, good second edge…
Double Twizzles – very good…
Rocker – very good…
Chocktaw – very good…

Overall if Ruslan wouldn’t execute wrong change of edge in Counter during One Foot Section, this execution would be Level 4 without any doubts…being strict it should be Level 3 and GOE +3 from all judges, nobody is executing better turns (with exception of Ruslan’s Counter). And those edges…they are the couple with the deepest edges and the best knee work in current Ice Dance.

Some Russian fans are persisting on saying that Lena & Ruslan are missing perfect synchro…yes, their arm positions in steps are sometimes not identical, but only sometimes and the rest is great and in very good synchro…

Then I started to notice “perfect synchro“ with couples who skate many years together…
Andrew & Kaitlyn –

Madison & Evan –

Gabriella & Guillaume –

…they all have moments and in case of French many moments with out of synchro moves especially arm positions, in case of French also free leg positions…did any judges put some deductions to them because of it? No.

Twizzle Level 3:
…great and definitely with best ice coverage in first Set, but in the third Set Ruslan executed last rotation in Twizzle without moving forward, so it could be counted like a Piruette – not surprising that Technical panel who undeservedly put down Level in Steps catches this opportunity to put down another Level, this time there was at least a reason…

Paso Doble:
…Ruslan didn’t got counted his Key Point 2 – unfortunately video showed this step not in detail, so it is hard to tell, but it looked OK to me, but Technical panel surely had better shot whether everything was OK or not…
…Ruslan didn’t get counted also second Key Point 2 – his slide steps especially second one were not too sure…
…Lena got Timing issue in second Key Point 3…this is funny thing because in reality the only lady who was able to execute good timing in Key Point 3 (Open Mohawk is executed in both Key Points 3 by lady) was Madison, but only in her second Key Point 3…in rules there is written that in Open Mohawk second edge on Left Backward Inside edge must be executed between count 4 and 1 (definitely after count 3)…but all ladies – Lena, Kaitlyn, Gabriella were executing second edge in last step on count 3 = too soon…surprisingly all ladies got this Key Point counted while the only Lena got Timing issue…and the most funny thing - also Madison got Timing issue - in case when she was OK in Timing during second Key Point 3…

If somebody would like to explain me why the couple with such edges -

- gets so low Skating Skills, only 8.29 points…I would really like to know.

Gabriella & Guillaume:

Paso Doble:
…both Key Points 1 – both partners were not perfect in slide steps, Gabriella’s step 10 on Left Backward Outside edge and next step 11 on Right Backward Outside edge – both edges were light, Guillaume had a light edge in step 10 as well…but Key Points were counted…

Step Sequence:
…not good camera view, but it is visible that edges are light and in my opinion some edges were missing, Guillaume executed wrong first Double Twizzle going too forward on blade and stratching the ice…

Kaitlyn & Andrew:

Step Sequence:
…some edges light, some edges good, nice change of edges, one wrong Double Twizzles from Andrew (second Double Twizzle in steps)

Twizzles:
…not full 4 rotation with leg position in First Set – this should be counted for Level 3 only…
…once again Andrew’s strange second Set – with first rotation in deep knee and next rotation with more straight knee…

Madison & Evan:

Paso Doble:
…I don’t like so much when count 1 in steps is not done on the main beat, but sure there is no deduction for this…
…second Key Point 3 – Madison put her Left backward Inside edge on wrong place – it must be placed at the inner side of the skating foot – Madison put it far from it, next to heel of skating blade – this Key Point shouldn’t be counted…

Step Sequence:
…some light edges, some good edges, few very good edges…
…One Foot Section with not visible edges work thanks to camera…

So if Technical panel was so strict to Lena & Ruslan putting them Levels down for every smaller mistake, then they should also put down…
…Level in Twizzle for W&P…
…Levels for Key Points 3 for Timing issues in case of P&C and W&P, one Timing issue for C&B…
…Level down because second Key Point 3 in case of C&B was wrongly executed…
…re-watch Step Sequence and Key Point 1 for P&C because of light edges…
…BUT panel should count Step Sequence Level 3 for I&Z…Level down in Step Sequence for Lena & Ruslan was not fair, there was no reason for it.

So once again some couples are excused while Lena & Ruslan are punished for imperfection…then we have such big difference in Element Score…

As to presentation…I liked W&P the most, they were great today, it was a very strong performance as to dance quality. Second best were I&Z, they can be sharper in moves, but still they had tones of passion and great Spanish dance execution. P&C were very good, but I don’t take Guillaume’s romantic presentation of Paso Doble/Spanish dance. C&B had better presentation in comparison with World Championships in my opinion but I refuse to admit that Spanish dance style is the same like Chicago and Cabaret dance style, although Madison is very good in such style.

Why I&Z got 3 point lower Component score then top 3 couples is another question…
I&Z with perfect edges and technique got 8.29 points fot Skating Skills, while Gabriella had one small stumble in Step Sequence and one big stumble at the end of the program – and P&C gets 8.82 points for Skating Skills…C&B for light edges gets 9.11 points for Skating Skills.

Another Component marks are also questionable as well.

GOE for Step Sequence for top 3 couples +2.20 points…for I&Z +1.73 points only.
GOE for Paso Doble parts – top 3 couples over +1 or a little bit under +1…I&Z +0.69 and +0.51 points…
GOE for Twizzles for top 2 couples +1.20 and +1.54 points…for I&Z +1.03 points…

Well, I am really not surprised that people are shocked with marks for top 4 couples, it was not good job from Technical panel and judges.

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Thank you!

I am honestly sad that I/Z are treated that way... No wonder they questioned their score...

Today in my jazz class, we did some warm-ups first to a song that had some guitar that sounded like Spanish guitar. And you what was the FIRST thing that came to my mind? PASO DOBLE AND ICE DANCING! I mean those were SCREAMING in my head.

Though I have no idea if the rhythm it had was actually Paso Doble.

The Chinese team is growing on me. I wish they could skate to a romantic Chinese themed music in their free dance next season: Soundtrack from An Lee's Lust, Caution came to my mind.

I really don't see how can you judge all of those turns and edges from the cameras angles, tbqh. Sometimes one of their feet blocks the other, sometimes the angle is too bad or far to judge the steps. The tech panel has closeup footage of their feet.

Watching this now, finally. Couldn't drag myself out of a dead sleep to watch 45 minutes of Paso Dobles, especially at the end of a long season.

Mostly just watching for the K&C stuff, anyhow.

I frankly thought Chock and Bates were the strongest today. They're not my favorite but they did well. I thought Weaver and Poje's SD was a bit ragged in spots but, there ya go, they're in first. I'm sure Katilyn and Andrew were wondering, "where were you judges a month ago???"

awesome to see W/P get some revenge.

caitie said:

I really don't see how can you judge all of those turns and edges from the cameras angles, tbqh. Sometimes one of their feet blocks the other, sometimes the angle is too bad or far to judge the steps. The tech panel has closeup footage of their feet.

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Sometimes a camera angle is really bad, I agree, it happened in case of P&C’s SD when a part of their steps were shown from too long distance. But other couples had “good“ camera angle and if you catch some better quality video, than it is really not hard to see edges and change of edges.

Some years ago I saw a video which judges and Technical panel can see during a competition and it was not much better (this season Junior Grand Prix also had such possibility to watch from judges side). For sure Technical panel has a possibility to see slow motion (which all people having computer have also), but I really doubt that panel watches all turns in slow motion and repeatedly. So I would say that there is no significant difference between what normal people can see on the video and what Technical panel can see on the video…with exception of P&C’s SD steps in few moments where Technical panel had better view for sure than normal people watching video on YouTube.