Will Lipnitskaya pull off a comeback?

QLutz · Jun 17, 2015

no jump preparation
+
quick & smooth transitions coming out of the jumps
+
ultra-consistency in a good season
=
a confident, natural jumper, one who would have less problems adjusting technique when forced to.

also, i'm not buying the various excuses put out by her team: yulias problems from last season were psychological. they started inbetween sochi team and individuals, when all of russia started breathing down her neck. its called stage-fright.

bottom line: too early to write off.

actualrealliveanna · Jun 17, 2015

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
I'm hoping the best for her. She should go back to 2A+3T and 2A+3T+2T, since an edge call on the 3Z would affect the 3T on her 3Z+3T. Other than that, I expect her to skate pretty solidly. She only had two bad results last season, and it's wayyyy to soon to take her out back as so many people seem to be so eager to do.

I agree on the 2A+3T, at least for the start of the season. If all goes well, then she could try a more difficult combination? I think she may need to rebuild her confidence, and giving her some relatively easier jumps she's performed well with in the past may do that!

Blades of Passion · Jun 17, 2015

I'd like to see her plan 3Lutz+2Toe+2Loop. There's no reason why someone of her ability shouldn't be able to do that combination and it's quite important with the rules right now (half point bonus from the 2Loop and removes the chance of zayaking on a 2Toe in case she doubles a 3Toe).

For the SP she can do solo 3Lutz out of steps in the first part of the program and then the almighty 3Toe+3Toe in the second half.

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 17, 2015

Blades of Passion said:
I'd like to see her plan 3Lutz+2Toe+2Loop. There's no reason why someone of her ability shouldn't be able to do that combination and it's quite important with the rules right now (half point bonus from the 2Loop and removes the chance of zayaking on a 2Toe in case she doubles a 3Toe).

For the SP she can do solo 3Lutz out of steps in the first part of the program and then the almighty 3Toe+3Toe in the second half.

I like the thought process here but when she does 2a-3t-2t to me at least she is the only female skater to make the 3t the highest jump in combination. No disrespect to other skaters but for the most part very few if any make their second jump the highest in the cascade.

I understand she isn't the best jumper of the ladies but l'm not yet convinced she gets credit where credit is due as entire programs go.

Blades of Passion · Jun 17, 2015

Sam-Skwantch said:
I like the thought process here but when she does 2a-3t-2t to me at least she is the only female skater to make the 3t the highest jump in combination. No disrespect to other skaters but for the most part very few if any make their second jump the highest in the cascade.

She would still do two 2A+3T's in the program. 3Lutz+2Toe+2Loop would just be her three-jump combo. The 2T at the end of the 2A+3T is wasted and possibly even dangerous, with the current rules.

solani · Jun 17, 2015

Sam-Skwantch said:
I like the thought process here but when she does 2a-3t-2t to me at least she is the only female skater to make the 3t the highest jump in combination. No disrespect to other skaters but for the most part very few if any make their second jump the highest in the cascade.

I understand she isn't the best jumper of the ladies but I'm never t yet convinced she gets credit where credit is due.

Her spins see underscored relative to the quality of others too but that may be another subject.

I really like the 2A-3T combos because the 3T is always very high compared to the first jump, but that's not something that makes the combo special when Yulia does it. Her 2A is good for doing that combo, because it's small and she gets very good speed out of it. So I think the 3T (and I really like her 3T, I think 3T-3T in the short is a very good idea for her) is only so high, because the 2A is so small ... but it gets the job done.

Blades of Passion · Jun 17, 2015

She did great 3Toe's on the end of 3Lutz's in the 2013-2014 season, so it's really not just that. She's just very good at doing 3Toe's in combination. She has natural timing on it.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jun 17, 2015

Blades of Passion said:
I'd like to see her plan 3Lutz+2Toe+2Loop. There's no reason why someone of her ability shouldn't be able to do that combination and it's quite important with the rules right now (half point bonus from the 2Loop and removes the chance of zayaking on a 2Toe in case she doubles a 3Toe).

Has she ever done a 2L combo? Seems like for her, a toe loop is much more natural/comfortable on combos. Doing a 2L would get a bit more points and avoid Zayaking, but I can't recall Lipnitskaia ever doubling a 3T so I don't think that's an issue. Also, given her lutz edge issues, it makes little sense to put the lutz in combination, let alone a 3-jump combination where potentially lower GOE (for the flutz) would be applied to all the jumps in the combination. I don't know, even though these are elite skaters, many of them would rather not do 2Ls... the timing needs to be spot on, and a 2T gets much more flow usually than a 2L combo. With the new Zayaking rules though having plagued so many skaters (like Gold), you would imagine they would practice combos with 2T+2L, but it could take some getting used to.

Alchamei · Jun 17, 2015

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Has she ever done a 2L combo? Seems like for her, a toe loop is much more natural/comfortable on combos. Doing a 2L would get a bit more points and avoid Zayaking, but I can't recall Lipnitskaia ever doubling a 3T so I don't think that's an issue.

She has. At 2014 Worlds FS, she doubled the triple Toe in her 2A-3T-2T combo and lost crucial points in her battle for Gold with Mao.

I don't know, but her technique doesn't seem reliable enough to be able to do 2Lo in a 3-jump combo.

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 17, 2015

Alchamei said:
She has. At 2014 Worlds FS, she doubled the triple Toe in her 2A-3T-2T combo and lost crucial points in her battle for Gold with Mao.

I don't know, but her technique doesn't seem reliable enough to be able to do 2Lo in a 3-jump combo.

She intentionally did the 2a-2t--2t at Worlds in order to go tag on the 3t later in the program after the halfway mark. At least that's what her and Eteri said in an interview. They were trying to actually gain points and give Mao a run for her money but of course she fell on the 3s.

Actually at Euros she missed the combo after the first 2a and then added the 3t after the next 2a after the halfway point and then added 2t-2t to her final jump which was the 3z. She scored 209 there.

Alchamei · Jun 17, 2015

StitchMonkey said:
Your sentence was fine. Hell, you caught me off guard with your question as i would never have guessed you were not comfortable with English.

I feel comfortable while using English, I just wasn't sure about this particular sentence. After all, I want my English to be as good as possible! :laugh:

Alchamei · Jun 17, 2015

Sam-Skwantch said:
She intentionally did the 2a-2t--2t at Worlds in order to go for 3z-3t later in the program after the halfway mark. At least that's what her and Eteri said in an interview. They were trying to actually gain points and give Mao a run for her money but of course she fell on the 3s.

Ok, thanks for correction, that makes sense. Nevertheless, I still think it's not the best thing to do the 2Lo for her.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jun 17, 2015

Alchamei said:
Ok, thanks for correction, that makes sense. Nevertheless, I still think it's not the best thing to do the 2Lo for her.

Agreed... I think most skaters are well aware that a 2L is more points than a 2T, so they must have legitimate reasons for opting for the 2T instead (namely, it's not worth as much more, and they're not comfortable doing that). And it's true - it's easy to tack a 2T onto a combo way more than a 2L. Even if your timing is off, you can still tack on the 2T, whereas with a 2L you must land the preceding jump perfectly to get the proper timing on your 2L takeoff. And like I said, I've never seen Lip attempt a -2L combo so I don't see why she would start now.

Blades of Passion · Jun 17, 2015

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Like I said, I've never seen Lip attempt a -2L combo so I don't see why she would start now.

Because she needs the points to win and that's what you do in sport? LOL? She is going to repeat the 3Lutz anyway, it's not like her 3Flip is any more reliable at this point.

A lack of steel-tight planning like this what creates some very sad results in CoP. You don't want to throw your competition away because of a zayak "mistake".

Anyway, that layout - which took Miyahara to 2nd in the World - is the absolute best for maximizing the technical points you can get (without a 3Axel/Quad) under the current scoring system. Lipnitskaya doesn't seem to have any deficiency in ability that would prevent her from learning it. Just get it done at the start of the program and move on with the performance.

solani · Jun 17, 2015

Blades of Passion said:
She did great 3Toe's on the end of 3Lutz's in the 2013-2014 season, so it's really not just that. She's just very good at doing 3Toe's in combination. She has natural timing on it.

Yes. I think I didn't express myself very well. What I meant is, that her 3T looks huge compared to her 2A, but that doesn't mean that her combo is exceptional compared to other skaters who do it.

Blades of Passion · Jun 17, 2015

psusanne said:
What I meant is, that her 3T looks huge compared to her 2A, but that doesn't mean that her combo is exceptional compared to other skaters who do it.

Agreed. The 3T is great but the 2A is weak. What a great way to cover up that flaw, though...

gmyers · Jun 17, 2015

She lost all enthusiasm for skating so she's not like tuktamisheva in that she showed herself to be extrmeely weak mentally. Maybe but she needs to be like tuktamisheva and sotnikova and forget about bombings. Every time sotnikova failed a three jump combo or tuktamisheva a sp they showed comeback. Lipnitskaia just got worse and worse.

Mathman · Jun 17, 2015

^ Oh, I don't think so. Both Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva had a couple of off years in between fabulous promise as youngsters and comeback years of glorious achievement. I think Julia will do the same.

gmyers · Jun 17, 2015

Mathman said:
^ Oh, I don't think so. Both Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva had a couple of off years in between fabulous promise as youngsters and comeback years of glorious achievement. I think Julia will do the same.

You are right but are you saying they ever skated and spoke like lipnitskaia?

actualrealliveanna · Jun 17, 2015

gmyers said:
You are right but are you saying they ever skated and spoke like lipnitskaia?

No, I think they're saying that all 3 skaters had a bad year after a couple of great ones. Julia may never return to her usual grandeur, but if she's anything like Liza or Adelina, she'll get back to her usual eventually. And if she'd lost all enthusiasm, I think she'd retire. I'm looking forward to seeing what she does this season, and to seeing if she can compete against the greats. Go Julia!

Will Lipnitskaya pull off a comeback?

QLutz

actualrealliveanna

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

solani

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

CanadianSkaterGuy

Alchamei

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Alchamei

Alchamei

CanadianSkaterGuy

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

solani

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

gmyers

Mathman

gmyers

actualrealliveanna

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