Copyright issues with skating music? | Golden Skate

Copyright issues with skating music?

andromache

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Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Probably been asked before but:

How do skaters go about getting legal permission to skate to music that isn't in the public domain? Must the artist give their personal permission, or is it usually more of a corporate-based sort of thing where the skater simply goes through someone at the record company?

(Specifically asking in reference to the discussion in the "Programs" thread we are having about Jeremy Abbot skating to Kanye West's Black Skinhead.)
 

Rissa

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Dec 11, 2014
It is my understanding that in general the permission from the artist is not necessary unless an artist explicitly forbids licencing of his/her music in general (like Prince or Led Zeppelin for example). A song is assumed available for use unless stated otherwise. I imagine skaters pay some standard fee for the right to use a copyrighted song.

I do wonder what role does the fact that figure skating competitions are broadcast on TV play in all this. As far as I know the licensing of copyrighted music for television is strictly regulated and quite complicated and depends on a country.
 
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karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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I believe there is some kind of arrangement where it goes through the federation.

When entering a competition, a skater (at any level where they have an independent program and the music is not provided for them) must fill in a music form, with details such as composer/artist, the name of the song, how long the cut of that song is (so for example, say I was using two songs cut together, I would write that Song 1 is 20sec, and Song 2 is 1:30, or something).

This then covers the skater under the licencing arrangements with the federations. I am not certain of the nitty gritty, but as I understand it, even at the top level, the skater themselves does not pay.

I imagine for a situation like Jeremy's, the licencing arrangement is with the promoter of the show, and not Jeremy himself.
 

andromache

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Mar 23, 2014
I believe there is some kind of arrangement where it goes through the federation.

When entering a competition, a skater (at any level where they have an independent program and the music is not provided for them) must fill in a music form, with details such as composer/artist, the name of the song, how long the cut of that song is (so for example, say I was using two songs cut together, I would write that Song 1 is 20sec, and Song 2 is 1:30, or something).

This then covers the skater under the licencing arrangements with the federations. I am not certain of the nitty gritty, but as I understand it, even at the top level, the skater themselves does not pay.

I imagine for a situation like Jeremy's, the licencing arrangement is with the promoter of the show, and not Jeremy himself.

I guess it makes sense for everything to run through a larger body like federations or promoters, given the complexities of TV and other viewing services like IceNetwork for some competitions. It's nice that the skaters can have creative freedom without worrying about paying.

I want to say something, but I'm afraid I'm going to get shutdown for it.

I'm not even sure what this means. :confused:
 

sabinfire

Doing the needful
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Nov 30, 2014
Yes, that piqued my interest as well -- inquiring minds want to know.
 

dorispulaski

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http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?52745-Copyright-Laws-Music&highlight=music+copyright

We have had a number of discussions on skating music and copyright before, like the one above. Unfortunately, I could not find the particular thread I wanted to refer to among the 378 threads with "music" in the title.

My memory is foggy these days, but I believe it is the venue or the federation or the broadcaster that has an arrangement with the companies that handle music distribution. for the artists. Approval does not have to be sought from the artist directly.

For most artists, the companies handle the business.

We ran into this when my nephew wanted a DJ at his wedding and the restaurant couldn't let him have a DJ, even if the DJ played albums my nephew personally owned, because the restauranteur refused to pay some monthly fee to some music distrubiton company. It was even doubtful whether he could have someone play their own original music live.

I believe someone who had a skating child finally answered the question definitively.

But in any case, Jeremy Abbott doesn't have to ask the rapper whether he can use his music.
 
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cheerknithanson

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I guess it makes sense for everything to run through a larger body like federations or promoters, given the complexities of TV and other viewing services like IceNetwork for some competitions. It's nice that the skaters can have creative freedom without worrying about paying.

I mean like I feel like artists need to take a deep breath and know that they're being respected and appreciated when skaters use their music to skate to for programs. Because to realize, out of all the songs, they picked that song...
 

noskates

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Jun 11, 2012
I don't think it's a matter of an artist taking a deep breath. They "own" the music and don't want anybody else making money off that music. Hence the DJ story and the restaurant not wanting to pay a fee. I work in a winery and we have live music occasionally. The bands have to "clear" the music before they can play it. Some artists are tighter than others about their music.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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Feb 27, 2012
I mean like I feel like artists need to take a deep breath and know that they're being respected and appreciated when skaters use their music to skate to for programs. Because to realize, out of all the songs, they picked that song...

Has an artist ever blocked a skater from using the artist's music for a program? I have never heard of such a thing.

Copyright enforcement on YouTube videos -- including, but by no means limited to, skating videos -- is another issue entirely.
And my opinion is that artists are entitled to copyrighting and to royalties.
Financial compensation is one of the incentives for any artist to continue creating music.
 

Pamigena

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Feb 17, 2014
My memory is foggy these days, but I believe it is the venue or the federation or the broadcaster that has an arrangement with the companies that handle music distribution. for the artists. Approval does not have to be sought from the artist directly.
I remember reading about this on GS before, and if I remember correctly someone said that it was somehow up to the organizers or broadcasters to get clearance for the music, but the skaters had nothing to do with it. But that it could theoretically happen that the organizer/broadcaster wouldn't be able to get the clearance, and then a skater could arrive at a competition and be told that he/she couldn't participate because they weren't allowed to play the music :unsure: sounded delightful

I mean like I feel like artists need to take a deep breath and know that they're being respected and appreciated when skaters use their music to skate to for programs. Because to realize, out of all the songs, they picked that song...
And as soon as respect and appreciation start paying bills, a lot of breathing problems amongst artists should be solved.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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... And as soon as respect and appreciation start paying bills, a lot of breathing problems amongst artists should be solved.

:agree: Well said, Pamina.

Another thing regarding royalties is that legitimate compensation for "invisible" professionals, such as back-up musicians, also is at stake. Not just for the headliner(s).
 
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dorispulaski

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I know of only one case where an artist pulled the plug on some skaters.

Dominina & Shabalin pulled the music of a British performance artist off YouTube to use for part of their infamous aborigine OD in 2010. The artist was appalled to hear her music on a video of DomShabs' program. She was not upset about the money issue. She thought the program insulted people like her Tamil ancestors. She issued a public statement about it.

DomShabs and Linichuk had to scramble between Euros and Olympics to redo that section of the music.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
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I know of only one case where an artist pulled the plug on some skaters.

Dominina & Shabalin pulled the music of a British performance artist off YouTube to use for part of their infamous aborigine OD in 2010. The artist was appalled to hear her music on a video of DomShabs' program. She was not upset about the money issue. She thought the program insulted people like her Tamil ancestors. She issued a public statement about it.

DomShabs and Linichuk had to scramble between Euros and Olympics to redo that section of the music.

Thanks, Doris :).

Come to think of it, I have a feeling that I had read about this case (thanks to you) in some post-2010 discussion on GS when the topic happened to come up. But I had forgotten :hopelessness:.
 

Rissa

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Dec 11, 2014
I mean like I feel like artists need to take a deep breath and know that they're being respected and appreciated when skaters use their music to skate to for programs. Because to realize, out of all the songs, they picked that song...

If their music was used in a way they disagreed with, I seriously doubt artists would feel appreciated and respected. And if they feel strongly enough about it, it's their prerogative to pull a plug on it, like that artist did with the Dominina/Shabalin program. If I were an artist, I wouldn't like my art to be distorted.
 
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TheGrandSophy

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Apr 14, 2014
For example, I know there has been a small furore during several British (and maybe American?) election campaigns because certain parties with which bands disagreed used their music without permission from their record companies when they've given instructions for their music not to be used in that way.

Eta: I am glad that artist found out about D/S using their music and quite understand why they pulled the plug. That programme was appalling.
 
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shiroKJ

Back to the forest you go.
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Jun 9, 2014
For example, I know there has been a small furore during several British (and maybe American?) election campaigns because certain parties with which bands disagreed used their music without permission from their record companies when they've given instructions for their music not to be used in that way.

Just last week Neil Young told Donald trump to stop using his music for his presidential campaign (the GOP is comedy central btw :laugh2:). I mean, if I was...well...anyone, I wouldn't want to be associated with Trump either :sarcasm:
 

carriecmu0503

On the Ice
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Jun 16, 2008
I seem to remember that in addition to the show program he used, Jeremy Abbott wanted to skate his "A Day In the Life" short program for the 2010 Stars on Ice Tour, but Stars couldn't get the music cleared. Hence, he did an abbreviated version of his LP instead.
 
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