Schindler's List programs

gourry · Jun 23, 2015

After the movie 'Schindler's List' released, were there many Schindler's List programs in the following years? And were there any good programs?
I really liked Yulia's, Joshua's and Jonathan's.

I'd like to compare them with some good 6.0 era Schindler programs.

Oh this is moved to a thread! So I linked the programs for those who are also interested.

uhh · Jun 23, 2015

gourry said:
After the movie 'Schindler's List' released, were there many Schindler's List programs in the following years? And were there any good programs?
I really liked Yulia's, Joshua's and Jonathan's. I'd like to compare them with some good 6.0 era Schindler programs.

Paul Wylie and Katarina Witt, but they were show/pro programs. Most of the competitive ones I can think of are from IJS - Savchenko/Szolkowy, Ilinykh/Katsalapov, Zaretskys, Gedevanishvilli, Voronov in addition to the ones you mentioned.

gourry · Jun 23, 2015

uhh said:
Paul Wylie and Katarina Witt, but they were show/pro programs. Most of the competitive ones I can think of are from IJS - Savchenko/Szolkowy, Ilinykh/Katsalapov, Zaretskys, Gedevanishvilli, Voronov in addition to the ones you mentioned.

Thank you!

I just watched them and I really like Paul Wylie's. I especially love his use of ina bauers and spread eagles. Also the show lightings kind of looked like search lights during the footworks so it also helped the mood I guess.

skateluvr · Jun 23, 2015

It doesn't get better than Paul Wylie. Great great skater and wonderful person. His SL was the best I have seen. Then comes Julia.

shine · Jun 23, 2015

I really loved I/K's FD the year they won Jr Worlds...

Weathergal · Jun 23, 2015

skateluvr said:
It doesn't get better than Paul Wylie. Great great skater and wonderful person. His SL was the best I have seen. Then comes Julia.

ITA!

karne · Jun 23, 2015

I think there needs to be some distinction between show/ex Schindler's Lists, and ones for competition. It would be a much easier piece to interpret in a show/exhibition setting because there are no required elements, so you can focus on the other things more. Whereas in competition, you have to do certain jumps and spins and your footwork has to meet a certain requirement, so that is always going to detract from it a little.

For me, the Paul Wylie one takes the best show program award, but nothing will ever top Joshua's delicate, emotional, perfect Schindler's List.

gourry · Jun 24, 2015

skateluvr said:
It doesn't get better than Paul Wylie. Great great skater and wonderful person. His SL was the best I have seen.

I agree. It was really breath taking. I think now it is one of the best exhibition programs I've ever seen. (Though I haven't seen that many 6.0 era exhibition programs. Maybe I'm missing out many?)

karne said:
I think there needs to be some distinction between show/ex Schindler's Lists, and ones for competition. It would be a much easier piece to interpret in a show/exhibition setting because there are no required elements, so you can focus on the other things more. Whereas in competition, you have to do certain jumps and spins and your footwork has to meet a certain requirement, so that is always going to detract from it a little.

For me, the Paul Wylie one takes the best show program award, but nothing will ever top Joshua's delicate, emotional, perfect Schindler's List.

I know. That's why I wondered if there were any 6.0 competition programs to compare, but so far none came up. Still waiting!

And ITA on Joshua's. Just sublime...

witcher · Jun 24, 2015

Julia put the end mark on SL for ladies. Trying to top her masterpiece would be a suicide mission.
Maybe in 20+ years.

gourry · Jun 24, 2015

witcher said:
Julia put the end mark on SL for ladies. Trying to top her masterpiece would be a suicide mission.
Maybe in 20+ years.

Haha I know. It's gonna be very difficult to top that strong image of a little girl in a red coat. The starting look and final ina bauer was the deal breaker for me.
........Maybe I'm just a sucker for good ina bauers and spread eagles in general. Hm...

But other ladies could take other approach to the music and then they might succeed.

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 24, 2015

witcher said:
Julia put the end mark on SL for ladies. Trying to top her masterpiece would be a suicide mission.
Maybe in 20+ years.

Yeah...I think bringing a warhorse/classic to a close should be a more respected thing in skating. In skateboarding/snowboarding it's called shutting down a spot.

Honestly I liked Josh's SL too but due to circumstances, injuries and his ability to overtake the top men's skaters with it just wasn't a factor that worked in his favor especially in the year of Sochi.

Julia was fortunate to have been able to capitalize when she did. I think people really thought she could medal at Sochi and even be able to take gold if others faulterd. It wouldn't have been as out of left field as the outcome eventually became. IMO...that's saying something.

Honestly I feel Bolero was shut down by Torvill and Dean and people just haven't figured it out yet. Although...Caro put in a valiant effort. :thumbsup:

solani · Jun 24, 2015

It's Paul Wylie and Julia for me. But you can't really compare those programs for various reasons.
I like Paul Wylie's for the selection of the music from SL, also including more dramatic, faster parts of the score. Really a complete program and a stellar performance. If people say that after Julia no woman should do SL again I think that no man should've done it after Paul Wylie ... but I'm still happy that Joshua Farris did it, also because it reminded me of how great Paul Wylie's was. But Paul Wylie's wasn't an IJS program of course, so it's unfair to compare them anyway.
I think Julia should do SL again in a couple of years, though her detached way of portraying the girl in the red coat was special in it's own way I think maturity could raise it to yet another level performance wise.

Seren · Jun 24, 2015

I think I might be the minority in that I do not like any Schindler's List programs. The music is haunting and beautiful but when I hear that music I find it difficult to focus on skating. It's too tied to the film and the horrors it is based upon for me to enjoy the music as a part of a skating program. However that does not mean I don't see how others can't enjoy it, I just have too much of an emotional reaction to it. I almost wish I didn't feel this way because the skaters mentioned by everyone else are fantastic.

noskates · Jun 24, 2015

Have to agree with Seren. I found it almost a little disrespectful to see Julia in the red dress because it did remind me of the movie and the horrors within. Had to focus on her skating and not the music - although it's a beautiful piece of music. It just invokes too many memories.

Amei · Jun 24, 2015

psusanne said:
I think Julia should do SL again in a couple of years, though her detached way of portraying the girl in the red coat was special in it's own way I think maturity could raise it to yet another level performance wise.

As an exhibition yes it would be interesting to see, her fan fest thread has a link to an article where her coach was interviewed and talked about how she (Yulia) watched her program Sabre Dance and basically didn't like how she did - that means she's growing artistically.

But I don't think she should try to bring it back as a competition program:
A) She was pretty perfect with it, it was an iconic piece and it's not like she can really use different cuts of the music like R&J
B) She would get crucified with commentators and fan boards, comments along these lines: she's just trying to recreate 2014, no artistry - she's reusing different music, they are still trying to make her a little girl, etc.

andromache · Jun 24, 2015

Amei said:
As an exhibition yes it would be interesting to see, her fan fest thread has a link to an article where her coach was interviewed and talked about how she (Yulia) watched her program Sabre Dance and basically didn't like how she did - that means she's growing artistically.

But I don't think she should try to bring it back as a competition program:
A) She was pretty perfect with it, it was an iconic piece and it's not like she can really use different cuts of the music like R&J
B) She would get crucified with commentators and fan boards, comments along these lines: she's just trying to recreate 2014, no artistry - she's reusing different music, they are still trying to make her a little girl, etc.

I think the fact that Yulia's SL is so iconic could hurt her if she ever skated to it again but....imagining a more artistically-developed Yulia skating to SL with a completely different program, not playing the little girl in the red coat but doing something more mature and age-appropriate with it....it could be really awesome. But if it was anything less than awesome, it would indeed get crucified.

(IMO, Yulia playing the little girl in the red coat was a little too heavy-handed for me, and I much preferred Josh's less literal performance. So that might be why I'm kind of into the idea of Yulia re-doing SL a few years from now with something more subtle.)

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 25, 2015

FWIW: Many Jewish Groups thanked Julia for taking her opportunity to speak to the world and use it to make people remember a tragic horror of humanity. Below is one of many I've found online.

Jewish Federation of Northeastern Pennsylvania
February 17, 2014 at 10:31am ·
Julia Lipnitskaya, the 15-year-old girl from Russia performed a routine to the theme song from Holocaust film “Schindler’s List” on Sunday, and became the youngest person ever to win a Winter Olympics gold medal.
It was incredible! Ilia Averbukh, a former Olympic ice dancing medalist who is a Russian Jew has adapted the saddest scene from a Holocaust movie. The routine features Lipnitskaya skating as the film’s iconic “girl in the red coat,” a young Polish Jew who is killed by Nazi soldiers. With Lipnitskaya slight size and cherubic appearance, she painfully recollects the children who died. For a few minutes on Sunday, February 3, young kids all over the world watched one of their own recall the greatest horror of the last century. Julia Lipnitskaya did it artfully, in a way that acknowledged tragedy without crossing over to exploitation or traumatic imagery. If you don’t think anything artistic or meaningful can happen on ice, well, to each his own. But if we want history to survive, we need to pass it on in a way the next generation will understand. In as many ways as possible, to reach everyone we can. Even on ice. Red flame and black ash on ice.

Furthermore the fact that Stephen Spielberg himself wrote her a letter of appreciation and hoped that one day she and he would meet speaks to the fact that she was respectful and even inspirational to those willing to be.

Obviously people are free to feel how they want. I understand that not all skaters are interested in tackling such serious topics...according to Eteri many coaches tried to talk Julia out of it using it... But I don't think that is reason enough to say others shouldn't.

He is another letter in appreciation.

Because Ukrainian public organization "Ukrainian Independent Council of Jewish Women" has decided to name a star «The Girl in red coat» and give it to the Olympic champion Yulia Lipnitskaya.

"Julia Lipnitskaya showed the world today, after more than 70 years after the terrible tragedy of the Jewish people, the girl in the red coat of" Schindler's List. " This girl in the Oscar-winning film by Steven Spielberg turned life Schindler, she melted his heart, she healed him from the terrible disease of mankind - indifference. Oskar Schindler saved from death in the gas chambers of more people than anyone in the history of war. Julia demonstrated to the world not only the highest sportsmanship. For its human feat she can give the title of Righteous Among the Nations. But this title we can not assign. So we decided to name a star «The Girl in red coat» and give it to Julia Lipnitskaya. This bright star Julia and will belong to all people. It will shine every day and remind humanity of the girl in the red coat and the horrors of the Holocaust, which should not be repeated in any form anywhere on the planet, "- said the president of an independent Ukrainian Council of Jewish Women, the chief editor of the media project" Kiev Jewish "Eleanor Groisman.

Ice Dance · Jun 25, 2015

shine said:
I really loved I/K's FD the year they won Jr Worlds...

I&K's free dance was my favorite.

I'm also a big fan of Lewis & Bye's free dance version from 2014 U.S. Nationals. This video is scratchy and halting so you can't see it, but the speed when he lifts her & spins her is SO fast. Incredible.

solani · Jun 25, 2015

Amei said:
As an exhibition yes it would be interesting to see, her fan fest thread has a link to an article where her coach was interviewed and talked about how she (Yulia) watched her program Sabre Dance and basically didn't like how she did - that means she's growing artistically.

But I don't think she should try to bring it back as a competition program:
A) She was pretty perfect with it, it was an iconic piece and it's not like she can really use different cuts of the music like R&J
B) She would get crucified with commentators and fan boards, comments along these lines: she's just trying to recreate 2014, no artistry - she's reusing different music, they are still trying to make her a little girl, etc.

I see what you mean, but I disagree with A), because she could use a rather different music cut, the score has much to offer. And her approach to the program should be different. I don't think that she should do the exact same program again.

andromache said:
I think the fact that Yulia's SL is so iconic could hurt her if she ever skated to it again but....imagining a more artistically-developed Yulia skating to SL with a completely different program, not playing the little girl in the red coat but doing something more mature and age-appropriate with it....it could be really awesome. But if it was anything less than awesome, it would indeed get crucified.

(IMO, Yulia playing the little girl in the red coat was a little too heavy-handed for me, and I much preferred Josh's less literal performance. So that might be why I'm kind of into the idea of Yulia re-doing SL a few years from now with something more subtle.)

Yes, I think the girl in the red coat worked just because she was a girl back then. I was surprised that it worked so well. The image of the little girl facing injustice and death, which she knew nothing about, is heavy indeed. And if she used the same approach in, let's say, five years it would indeed be weird.

Sam-Skwantch · Jun 25, 2015

Seren said:
I never said anything about shying away from depictions of the holocaust. I am very passionate about history and World War II history in particular. I have spent many hours objectively studying the history of the holocaust. But art is not objective, it is subjective by nature. My dislike of the use of this particular peice of music is strictly my own subjective opinion based on on how affecting I found he film to be. It has nothing to do with my ability to objectively study terrible events. My personally "shying away" from the use of this music has nothing to do with how I perceive the world and I doubt is leading to any fear and misunderstanding in the world. Especially since my personal study of history has been with the goal of the opposite.

As I said before, my dislike of using this music is nothing more than my subjective opinion and I am glad others find meaning and value in it. People should be able to use whatever music they like and no matter what there will be people who either like or dislike it for a multitude of reasons.

All right, I'm out. I am clearly not being understood and don't want to further detail this topic.

I understand you loud and clear. Of course you are entitled to your opinion. I was merely offering up for the sake of conversation the positive impact this program, including the music, had on people. I think the goal of Ilya and Yulia was to cause a deep and sorrowful moment of reflection. Of course I'm sure they understood that it may not go over well with all. That's just an inherited risk that goes with the territory.

Your first post in this thread was very clear that you respected people like myself who were inspired by her performance.

Schindler's List programs

gourry

uhh

gourry

skateluvr

shine

Weathergal

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

gourry

witcher

Match Penalty

gourry

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

solani

Seren

Wakabond Forever

noskates

Amei

andromache

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Ice Dance

solani

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

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