I'm worried 05' Worlds!

The thing is though, presentation does not equal art. It's like the difference between classical music performers, circus performers and people that sing in musicals. There are great perofmers in all categories, and they are called artists in the general sense of the word, but if you're talking Art, it's a different story.
The problem with skating is that some take the view it should have balletic influence, others the view that all you need is a good show. The difference between a symphony orchestra concert and a evening at "les misérables".
The problem then arises that most skating judges are not trained artists . It is potentially quite easy for someone to bluff the judges with a pseudo contemporary program that no one understands but thinks they had better give it a good mark cos it's supposed to be modern art.

"Why, then... there is nothing
either good or bad, but thinking makes it so..." William Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act Two, scene two

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While reading yesterday I found that quote. I should do well to remember that from now on. My apologies. Perhaps I should stop thinking like a choreographer LOL. A thousand apologies, seriously. I never meant to offend people's taste in art.

Just so you don't think ill of me, I am very proud of the judges for giving Brian the rightful title of European Champion, come now you don't honestly believe that Plushenko deserved to win that competition with the performance he gave. A quad Axel. What a nut for trying that LOL.

Re: Re: I'm worried 05' Worlds!

icenut84 said:

Why, exactly, does the men's competition "need" Joubert to win? Because he's your favourite? If he skates the best, he deserves to win, of course he does. Like at Europeans, when he skated the best and won. But Plushenko is a better all-around skater with more complexity in his routines and his repertoire, which is why he wins more often. I don't think any competition "needs" someone imparticular to win - apart from the skater who is best on the night.

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I think Brian is over-rated and I don't care for Plushenko's style on teh ice...

that being said if it does come down to those two (I'm hoping for Tim but I won't give up on figure skating if he loses--that's assuming he makes it to worlds this coming season ) it better be who ever skates his best. I personally don't see anything new with Joubert's skating... it's just another guy doing Morosov's choreography which just happens to look a lot like Alexei's (could it be because 1 he's using Yags' choreographer and 2 because Joubert finds Alexei to be the best skater and someone to emmulate )

why it's so horrible that the best man of the night and not just your favorite should win is beyond me... it's not the end of the world...

Re: Re: Re: I'm worried 05' Worlds!

Tonichelle said:

I think Brian is over-rated and I don't care for Plushenko's style on teh ice...

that being said if it does come down to those two (I'm hoping for Tim but I won't give up on figure skating if he loses--that's assuming he makes it to worlds this coming season ) it better be who ever skates his best. I personally don't see anything new with Joubert's skating... it's just another guy doing Morosov's choreography which just happens to look a lot like Alexei's (could it be because 1 he's using Yags' choreographer and 2 because Joubert finds Alexei to be the best skater and someone to emmulate )

why it's so horrible that the best man of the night and not just your favorite should win is beyond me... it's not the end of the world...

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Even though I'm a Plushy & Yags fan, and enjoy Brian to a certain level...


What you said.. Was well said..
I agree.. It comes down to who skated the most techinically sound, stronger and complicated program..


I had posted on FSU that my failing to enjoy skating lately has nothing to do with the judging system, it's the skaters themselves.. Some of them are cookie cutters or they have nothing original to show us or produce.


I admit to enjoying Sasha C, Johnny W and a few who recently started to become noticed just before '02 Oly and after to arrive... They, to me, are skating with heart and originality.. They are not trying to be someone else who has already preceeded them. I was in love during the Plush Yaguden competitions.. Talk about two skaters fighting it out on the ice with so so much diversity and originality.. Oh, be still my heart! Yags was this strong power skater who would put his heart out in every performance.. Plushenko's heart was there for all to see, but he was the powerful classical graceful skater..


I enjoy Brian J.. I really do.. But, I'm sad that I see no originality in his programs.. He gives me a little bit of what I enjoyed between Yags and Plush, but then, I agree.. I see cookie cutter skating and programs. I don't want to see another Yags.. I want to see Brian J, an original.




P.S Kind on topic and kind of off topic.. But.. Is it me or does it seem some fans are going on who is cute. Sorry, no offense but that is how I'm reading the inbetween the lines posts from all over lately.. Who is cute or pretty should have won... Nothing wrong with liking a skater for being cute or pretty, I do it... But, I try not to base my opinion on who won on looks.. To me, Yags and Plush are no lookers.. Just my opinion.. But I love love love them for their high level individual originality as skaters.



Well, that's my cry..



Denise...

QUOTE from Denise:

"I was in love during the Plush Yaguden competitions.. Talk about two skaters fighting it out on the ice with so so much diversity and originality.. Oh, be still my heart! Yags was this strong power skater who would put his heart out in every performance.. Plushenko's heart was there for all to see, but he was the powerful classical graceful skater..."

Bravo, Denise - well said!

anya_angie said:

Just so you don't think ill of me, I am very proud of the judges for giving Brian the rightful title of European Champion, come now you don't honestly believe that Plushenko deserved to win that competition with the performance he gave. A quad Axel. What a nut for trying that LOL.

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A quad axel? He didn't try that. He singled his first two 3axel attempts (falling on the first). AFAIK he was just going for 3axel, not quad.

icenut84 said:

A quad axel? He didn't try that. He singled his first two 3axel attempts (falling on the first). AFAIK he was just going for 3axel, not quad.

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You are correct. Though Plushy wants to master all quads, he never even mentioned quad axel. The most daring jump he ever attempted in competition was a quad lutz.

Denise... I also feel a lot of the "Brian is the BEST SKATER EVER" statements are really saying "Brian's is the HOTTEST skater ever" they're getting looks confused with the athletisism (SP) of the sport

I'm a teen and I don't care for either... I don't think age has anything to do with who likes who.

I also feel a lot of the "Brian is the BEST SKATER EVER" statements

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OMG, what board are you reading that at?

A quad axel? He didn't try that. He singled his first two 3axel attempts (falling on the first). AFAIK he was just going for 3axel, not quad.

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Which interviews did you read from Mishin from Euros? LOL it was all over the place. I don't have the link right now but if asked I will post it.

I know I wasn't asked, but here we are! This little interview with Mishin is directly after the European Championships long program. It can still be found at this site.

http://sport-tv.ru/comments.html?id=22738

Here is the translation.

- Where's the cause of the loss?
- It's not possible to win always.

- But he was injured, even that wasn't the reason?
- Of course, he was injured. Because of the injuries he couldn't practise systematically. And that all causes problems.

- What is the final diagnose of Evgeni's problem?
- The final diagnose set the American doctor - it's a damaged meniscus.

- Plushenko lost today for the second time in the season (remember, he lost the final of Grand Prix Series, the first was skater Emanuel Sandhu) - it's an accident or the "first ring" (like first signal or warning)?
- Evgeni could won over Joubert if he hadn't wanted to break a record. But he said he wants to do his maximum. And he tried quad axel, though I told him not to do that. And the one technical error made the others then.

- Don't Evgeni's lately unsuccess bring competitors to him?
- Of course, it can't happen that you lose and no-one knows that.

- If you let me, I aprecciate Alexei Yagudin, who consults with Joubert these times, it is said, that the French skater closely fleeced Plushenko. Then began the rumors of psychologist...
- It's not neccesary to find any mystique in that. In sports losses are usual. No-one is unbeatable. Regarding Evgeni, I think he still plans something.

- As you had to say goodbye to any of your loved pupils, for example Alexei Urmanov, the time of Plushenko's leaving will come too - how will you survive that?
- For everytime, when somebody is leaving me, he goes out with a part of myself inside. I understand and accept this natural process.

- Last question, what can you say about bronze medallist Ilia Klimkin?
- Only the best. Klimkin is connecting wonderful thoughts of his dead coach Igor Rusakov and systematism of his current coach Viktor Kudriatsev. And that, as you can see, brought him succes.

berthes ghost said:

OMG, what board are you reading that at?

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Almost anywhere there are giddy females (young and older) who stress over who is dating, who is not dating, who is cute or who is pretty. No names, just they seem to be on almost every board.


Again.. Don't get me wrong.. I have a shallow fun loving lustful side and really have no problem with those who do.. I just don't allow myself to find fault with their competitor(s) or not find room for improvement with the one I lust after.

That is the way I am too LOL.

My sister is 33, and she and I had a discussion about dance at the Olympics. I said I rooted for A&P because they were the best IMO. She said she was rooting for the Americans, she doesn't even know who represented us LOL but anyway, I said "I root based on talent," and she said "I root for the Americans, I'm not rooting for some communist!" I said, "Last time I checked France was a REPUBLIC." She also doesn't know an Axel from a Biellmann, and thinks Sarah Hughes is a goddess of the ice. Not to mention she can't spell if her life depended on it!

OK that was WAYYYYYYYYY off topic, sorry!!

quad axel? you have to be joking. I watched that video again and there is no way he was going for a quad axel. Come on mishin, don't look for excuses, admit plushy just had a bad day.

Antilles said:

Nova, you could take Plushy's winning next year as a positive sign for Joubert. Since 1987, the man who wins Worlds before an Olympics hasn't been able to win Olympics. Maybe Plushy doesn't want it next year.

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Well said..... 1987 World Champion - Brian Orser of Canada
1988 Olympic Champion - Brian Boitano of the USA

1991 World Champion - Kurt Browning of Canada
1992 Olympic Champion - Viktor Petrenko of Ukraine

1993 World Champion - Kurt Browning of Canada
1994 Olympic Champion - Alexi Urmanov of Russia

1997 World Champion - Elvis Stokjo of Canada
1998 Olympic Champion - Ilia Kulia of Russia

2001 World Champion - Evgeny Plushenko of Russia
2002 Olympic Champion - Alexi Yagudin of Russia

SkateFan4Life said:

Well said..... 1987 World Champion - Brian Orser of Canada
1988 Olympic Champion - Brian Boitano of the USA

1991 World Champion - Kurt Browning of Canada
1992 Olympic Champion - Viktor Petrenko of Ukraine

1993 World Champion - Kurt Browning of Canada
1994 Olympic Champion - Alexi Urmanov of Russia

1997 World Champion - Elvis Stokjo of Canada
1998 Olympic Champion - Ilia Kulia of Russia

2001 World Champion - Evgeny Plushenko of Russia
2002 Olympic Champion - Alexi Yagudin of Russia

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May be Evgeny will break the pattern afterall, or may be someone else will.

Vash

anya_angie said:

I know I wasn't asked, but here we are! This little interview with Mishin is directly after the European Championships long program. It can still be found at this site.

http://sport-tv.ru/comments.html?id=22738



- Plushenko lost today for the second time in the season (remember, he lost the final of Grand Prix Series, the first was skater Emanuel Sandhu) - it's an accident or the "first ring" (like first signal or warning)?
- Evgeni could won over Joubert if he hadn't wanted to break a record. But he said he wants to do his maximum. And he tried quad axel, though I told him not to do that. And the one technical error made the others then.

.

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Well, since Mishin said it, it MUST be true! Methinks he doesn't want to admit that Plush had a shockingly bad performance, a meltdown not seen in some years from him. Stuff happens. But to say he was trying quad axel? It sure didn't look like it on the tape *I* was watching.

Kasey

novaspacedout said:

I am extremely bothered by the possibility that even though Brian Joubert might put out the ultimate, beautiful, amazing performance of a lfetime Plushenko will win even though he might have a mediocre program. I pray that something like this doesn't happen! I mean look at what happened at the 04' Worlds: the German Stefan Lindemann robbed Stephane Lambiel of his bronze. Stephane Lindemann is a good skater, but nothing extraordinary. Now Lambiel is an amazing talent with awesome choreography that takes my breath away each time I watch him skate. I would like Irina Slutskaya to get back on the podium though. But the men's competition needs Joubert to win. So if he skates the best, give him (joubert) the gold, not Plushenko. But if Plushenko skates better than Joubert does FINE he wins! But please give the gold to who skates the best, not to who is favorite? Please we already saw this cruelty at Europeans when Plushenko got a medal when Frederic Dambier SHOULD HAVE GOT IT! Plushenko can stand to be OFF the podium. So unfair is judging! It is depressing at times!

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Well, this iis about the strangest post I ever read. Plushenko is for 7 years at the top of world figure skating. Do you imply he got to the top having no right to?
I think every viewer has some disagreement with judging. I for example think Joubert is a parvenue with mediocre programmes and in World silver should have gone to Lambiel. So what: should I start a campaign as to re-judging the Worlds and giving the medal to Lambiel instead of Joubert? By the way the simple fact that Plushenko was better than Joubert even with the fall ( mind you -he was better and not placed better ) shows that Joubert has no chance for gold. Plushenko has an immense record of successfull performances He is in the Guinness Book of records for many things like the biggest number of 6.0-s ever given to a male.skater. He made a history of figure skating with many elements like the 4+3+3 combination which other skaters(Joubert included)don't even dare to perform.
In my view even to imply that Plushenko's gold is a result of some dishonesty on the part of judges is very rude , biased and totally wrong.

Libra .

When I read comments like novaspacedout's I laugh hysterically till I get interested in something else. Libra you hit the nail on the head. I think these people simply want a new face for gold, which just isn't happening. When there is nothing to nitpick, they find something somehow LOL. Granted, he has weaknesses, but he does a great job of hiding them (if there's more than one).

Plushenko is having music especially composed just for his long program this year, perhaps by Marton again. No word on what he will portray, as a matter of fact his programs are the best kept secret in skating LOL. After portraying a city in turmoil and a legendary dancer, I wonder what he'll come up with next.

they are saying over at fsuniverse that his short program is to 'moonlight sonata'... a recent interview of his was translated from bulgarian..and it confirms the selection. great! i think he can pull it off. i always look forward to seeing 'the champion' perform.