2015 Skate America Ice Dance SD Oct 23

Also last night, my dad said he like Gilles/Poirier's SD the best.

I like the Shibutanis short dance. It defeated G&P's as well at Nepela, and it has all the balletic refinement than Kaitlin Hawayek is lacking here. Sharp perfect positions.

C&B were warned that Dark Eyes did not fit the Ravensburger pattern, and the tempo did not meet the requirement for staying constant throughout one of the required elements (this is all discussed on the Waltz is Not a Waltz thread in the Edge Forum). They've had all off three weeks to work on this new program. I think this performance was largely about getting the elements done and "getting through." But I expect during the next few months, the touches that make a program unique and express the music will be added. (My IN feed froze so I really haven't watched this program as a whole yet). They have some serious competition in only a couple weeks at Cup of China. We'll see what happens!

I have no idea what the issue was with N&N's tempo. Off to check out the Waltz thread to see if the answer is there.

uhh said:

The problem with the lift is that he's rotating nowhere near fast enough to get through 5 full rotations within 6 seconds of lifting her, or for her 4 rotations in the full split position because she takes a while to get fully extended. He didn't get onto one foot for the exit feature until after 6 seconds was up. So it's either lift for longer and take the extended lift deduction, or come down within the required time but only get level 3 at best.

Click to expand...

This is correct. The lift is not a simple lift (though it looks deceptively so) but to avoid the time deduction they have to go faster, meaning several things have to happen faster in order for the level 4 to persist, and so far, we have no evidence he or she can do these things faster. If they can't it's better to change it.

cheerknithanson said:

Also last night, my dad said he like Gilles/Poirier's SD the best.

Click to expand...

Well the costumes certainly stand out. I am already in love with G/Ps FD this season, so that's the one I'm waiting to see here.

But so far this season I've found most of the SDs to be just a bit dull. My fave so far choreographically I think is Weaver/Poje's — though the performance I saw was rough outing.

bramweld said:

Not wanting to digress but given the Shibs skating skills why hasn't a program of this loveliness been choreographed for them? I really hope they realize sooner rather than later that Marina is no longer invested. Just my very, very, humble opinion. If they wanted anymore proof that is.

I just get this impression that while Marina plays favourites, Igor doesn't. Not to take anything away from S/K, but this program just begs the question. Or is it that the Shibs have peaked? Point me to the right thread...

Click to expand...

I don't think it has to be necessarily about Marina playing favourites in this case. IMO she sincerely wants to do well by the Shibs, but may not be the right person for it. She has a technical team, but are they what the Shibs need? At this point the Shibs themselves have perhaps realized that she doesn't quite know what to do with them choreography-wise, hence seeking outside help. You notice that when she talks about S/K, how they are "a man and a woman on the ice". Now, you can agree or disagree with her on S/K and their potential etc., but perhaps she's inspired by them and finds it easier to find concepts for them? The sibling thing might be throwing her off with the Shibutanis.

And while I like them, one problem I always have with the Shibs is the lack of attack and projection? Even watching them on TV they don't come across as commanding and IMO that's hurting them. I don't know if it's rooted in technique or presentations style or whatever, but with them I often think "that was nice" and forget about it. It's all very contained and, well, polite. Even with S/K, they're improved but still have rough edges, but there's a sharpness there that the Shibs are lacking. Viktoria has improved, but Nikita in particular is a great ice dancer (with obvious foibles...) with charisma who knows how to draw attention to their performance. I know it borders on too much at times, but for me he's always super interesting to watch because of his intensity.

Marina has trouble choreography platonic programs. So she really can't help the Shibs out more.

uhh said:

There may be no clear number one in Russia, but there are at least 3 teams with a better claim to it than S/K. B/S are multiple national champs, former European champs and world medallists. I/Z are current national champs, had the highest finish of any Russian team at Worlds last year, & have scored higher than S/K already this season. S/B are European medallists. S/K have, so far, one SD that scored in the low sixties and that's it. Plus there are only two spots available for Worlds. You would think Marina would be better off paying more attention to the Shibs as they are pretty much assured to have assignments after Nats, where as no one knows what will happen in Russia.

Click to expand...

I think we need to see how the other teams do at their GP events. IF S/K hold on to the silver medal position here their scores could rise and they will have a very good shot at the GPF.

I think the Russian Fed will drop any of them and only B/S have good accomplishments (good not great considering Russian Ice Dance history). I think its wide open in Russian Ice Dance if a team shows they can perform and compete. Wide Open. S/K are a very new team. Maybe I/Z gelled quicker together last year but I don't think the Russian Fed is going to completely write of an improved S/K.

nocturnalis said:

Marina has trouble choreography platonic programs. So she really can't help the Shibs out more.

Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

nocturnalis said:

Marina has trouble choreography platonic programs. So she really can't help the Shibs out more.

Click to expand...

Ironically it's the Peter T program they have that I don't like. I love the short, which looks like Marina's choreo, although I did see someone say they worked with a ballet dancer on it. I don't known if that means consulting or the actual choreo.

caitie said:

I did see someone say they worked with a ballet dancer on it.

Click to expand...

Alex Wong. He is amazing to watch. A professional ballet dancer who broke into pop culture by competing on So You Think You Can Dance.

The Shibutanis always have fabulous short programs.

I hope Marina has been attacking their free. They need to hit their levels.

Praying. Because I am going to be cheering for them like crazy live at Skate Canada this week!

cheerknithanson said:

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think it's right to criticize body image.

Click to expand...

I was not being mean, I just think that the cut of that dress is unflattering to a pretty petite young lady