ISU passes new judging system

joesk8judg · Jun 14, 2004

falls

If I am correct from what I understand from a seminar recently, the fall rule applies ONLY to falls during a program that are NOT on elements----a fall on an element is not 1.0, but falls IN THE program as a result of hitting blades, etc., not on the falls of an element----THis is what I understood------thanks-----joe

thvudragon · Jun 14, 2004

Re: falls

joesk8judg said:
If I am correct from what I understand from a seminar recently, the fall rule applies ONLY to falls during a program that are NOT on elements----a fall on an element is not 1.0, but falls IN THE program as a result of hitting blades, etc., not on the falls of an element----THis is what I understood------thanks-----joe

Odd Mr. Inman. In the ISU proposal for Ice Dance, it states:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-149318-166534-58041-0-file,00.pdf

falls* - 1.0 for every fall of one and -2.0 for every fall by both partners; If the fall causes interruptions to the program that exceed 10 seconds, an additional deduction will be applied; -1.0 for 11-20 second interruption, -2.0 for 21=30 second interruption etc.;
* A fall on a required element may further be reflected in the judges' assessment (GoE & Components) and by technical Secialist' assignment of the Level for that element.
For interpretation of this rule, a fall is defined as the loss of control by a skater resulting in both blades leaving the ice and the skater landing immobile (even momentarily).

To me, this is stating that deductions are for every fall. It even specifies that these deductions are taken ontop of those taken from elements through GoEs and Program Components.

There is also another document for pairs and singles that states:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-149322-166538-58045-0-file,00.pdf

falls - 1.0 for every fall (of one or both competitors in Pair Skating); if the fall cases interruptions to the program that exceed 10 seconds, additional deduction will be applied: -1.0 for 11-20 seconds interruption, -2 for 21-30 seconds interruption etc.; for interpretation of this rule a fall is defined as the loss of control by a skater resulting in both blades leaving the ice and the skater landing immobile (even momentarily).

Again, it says -1.0 for every fall.

TV

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 16, 2004

Mr. Inman - I believe you are explaining the Fall Rule regarding Dance. What I would be interested in is the Rule, if any, on Singles. I have seen over the years so many discrepancies on a skater falling.

A Fall for me is not a discredit to the skater's ability. It is a slippery sport but it is about the skater's technical ability and performance in that competition only and should be judged accordingly as a failed element and a disruptive performance.

Joesitz

euterpe · Jun 16, 2004

I'd like to know how the rule applies to Singles, too.

I can recall that in the GPF, Sasha had TWO falls, yet one of the judges gave her a score of 9.0 for Performance/Execution, and another gave her 8.50 in the same category. The judge who had given Sasha the 9.0 scored Fumie Suguri (the winner) 7.25 in the same category, when Fumie's only notable fault was doubling her triple loop.

Fumie landed 5 clean triples and two combinations, while Sasha landed only 4 clean triples and one combination.

thvudragon · Jun 16, 2004

euterpe said:
I'd like to know how the rule applies to Singles, too.

You can't be serious. I just posted the deductions for fall for Singles, Pairs, and Dance. :\

euterpe · Jun 16, 2004

I see that a one-point deduction per fall is taken from the TOTAL Program Components score, but that would not prevent one or more individual judges from overscoring one or more Program Components categories, thus offsetting the deduction for the falling skater. The same judge(s) could underscore other skaters' Program Components.

It's still a manipulable system.

thvudragon · Jun 16, 2004

euterpe said:
I see that a one-point deduction per fall is taken from the TOTAL Program Components score, but that would not prevent one or more individual judges from overscoring one or more Program Components categories, thus offsetting the deduction for the falling skater. The same judge(s) could underscore other skaters' Program Components.

That is a problem. It was a problem in 6.0 and has always been a problem. I'm hoping its just a training problem as of now.

euterpe said:
It's still a manipulable system.

Every system is. To say there is no system that can't be manipulated is folly.

TV

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 16, 2004

thvudragon said:
That is a problem. It was a problem in 6.0 and has always been a problem. I'm hoping its just a training problem as of now.

Every system is. To say there is no system that can't be manipulated is folly.

TV

TV - I just watched the Diving Trials. The judges were known and so were their scores. OK, the competitors were of the same nationality so you didn't get any hanky panky but I was impessed by the closeness of the scores.

I do not think all judging sports are as questionable as figure skating is.

Joe

ISU passes new judging system

joesk8judg

thvudragon

Joesitz (RIP)

euterpe

thvudragon

euterpe

thvudragon

Joesitz (RIP)

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