2015 Cup of China Mens SP

I find it amazing that you are suggesting Jin be punished for his technical abilities, to lower the TES "thrown at him"?FYI, these aren't "thrown at him", he earned them through hard work and practice, and he has had a long skating career. He isn't exactly young, he's already 18. Are you proposing the same for other juniors like Shoma or Jason, that their TES and PCS be lowered, even when they performed well?

karne said:

Are the torches and pitchforks going to come out if I didn't really like Javier's SP? :hopelessness:

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I love his flamenco moments, when he held certain positions, love his step sequence, but I don't like the rest of his SP. I found the skate lacked energy, passion and dynamism, though the hands movements were a nice touch.

qwertyskates said:

I love his flamenco moments, when he held certain positions, love his step sequence, but I don't like the rest of his SP. I found the skate lacked energy, passion and dynamism, though the hands movements were a nice touch.

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It's the first time he's competed with it...he said he was nervous. I'm sure it will improve with time. It certainly looked a lot better to me than some other recent SP debuts.

silverfoxes said:

It's the first time he's competed with it...he said he was nervous. I'm sure it will improve with time. It certainly looked a lot better to me than some other recent SP debuts.

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Javi finally has a great SP, that's my take. Najarro is such a great choreography.

Art&Sport said:

Javi Fernandez always gets high PCS whether he deserves it or not. In this case, I think Javi has made an excellent start to the season and is showing improvement and more confidence presentation-wise. But I sincerely hope he does NOT come out with the same bull crap cheesy fp that he had the last two seasons. I believe he is going to do something related to bull fighting, but I'll reserve judgment until I see it as to whether he's grown that much in presentation.

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Javier´s sp is a flamenco dance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamenco and his fp has music from the "Guys and Dolls" musical....

Fernandez has an amazing sp and his interpretation was fantastic already at this early point. I also like Nan Song´s programme a lot.

andromache said:

He finished somewhere in the lower-half of the top ten at Nationals last year.

After Googling him and looking at his wiki page, he finished 9th last year. Not coached by the same team as Ross, unsure about choreo. He was also on a TSL interview with Caroline Zhang; they're either close friends or dating, but I can't recall which.

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Thank you for replying to my post. I truly appreciate it!! Plus..............You have that Picture of my all time Fav Joshua!!!

just looked up the results

boo Sergei slipped:sad21:
But congrats to SuperJavi!
oh & the talentefd guy Jin!

qwertyskates said:

I find it amazing that you are suggesting Jin be punished for his technical abilities, to lower the TES "thrown at him"?FYI, these aren't "thrown at him", he earned them through hard work and practice, and he has had a long skating career. He isn't exactly young, he's already 18. Are you proposing the same for other juniors like Shoma or Jason, that their TES and PCS be lowered, even when they performed well?

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I'm not suggesting Jin be punished. Those are your words and your interpretation of what I said. Of course Jin deserves accolades and admiration for his athletic prowess. I am saying that the sport needs to rethink the over-focus on and over-weighting of quads in the scoring. The balance is tipping too far in the direction of overwrought acrobatics to the detriment of fully rounded artistry and athleticism. This is my opinion.

As long as Jin continues to place a focus on improving his skating in all aspects along with continuing to land all the highly valued over done tech content, then under the current system he may reign at the top for a long time. That is unless he falls prey to injury or is bested by skaters like Shoma who currently have a more enviable balance of difficult jumps and laudable presentation skills.

As far as Jason and Shoma, they are both more well-rounded artistically than Jin (at least at present). Jason is still working on mastering a quad in competition though, so Jin is far ahead of Jason there, at the moment. I'm not saying Jin does not deserve credit, I am saying that I feel too many points are handed out for quad/triple. And that PCS too often rise on the basis of landing quads. Yes it is exciting that Jin landed the most difficult jump, a lutz with four revolutions paired with a triple. That is amazing. However, it is not everything that makes the sport of figure skating compelling.

Art&Sport said:

Boyang Jin has achieved something truly amazing technically and his program suits him, but let's be honest, he's a junior new on the scene and should not be having that many points thrown at him on TES or PCS. Why? Because he still has a long way to go development wise, and the message being sent is that he has arrived already. That's NOT a good message to send IMHO, because there is no real incentive to work on weak points as long as you can crank out quads till doomsday and amass an unrealistically high score your first time out on the senior GP.

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I think "TES thrown at him" is not a fair comment, TES is based on technical achievements, and you did agree with his outstanding technical achievements in your post, but then you said he doesn't deserve the points for them like a Yuzuru, Javier, Jason or Patrick? The CoP has been in place for many years now, so if you wake up to the unfairness of it all only because of Jin, that is somewhat biased. Those same TES are "thrown at" everyone else for years and years, juniors and seniors, Jin earned them like all the other junior competitors, so why single him out for a subjective, artificially lowered TES?

You seem to only get upset about the points he's earned, but fail to see the PCS points he has lost over and over. His PCS were lower than fellow skaters like Shoma by huge margins, enough to lose a place at the top despite a huge TES advantage. Can you also see that the CoP has rewarded and also penalized Jin?

Both excellence in technicals and aesthetic expressions are difficult to achieve, skaters work long and hard at them. Some skaters are naturally gifted in expression, others are gifted in athletic abilities and flexibility. We all have our preferences, and I personally prefer an optimum balance, I just don't feel that it is right to privilege one over the other and demand that the system be changed or tweaked to reflect a biased preference.

Loved Fernandez's SP. One thing though: aren't the "bullfighting hands" typical of paso doble instead of flamenco (solo man at min 4:00)? Nothing wrong in using them this way, just wondering if someone here is more expert and can enlight me in that regard?

andromache said:

He finished somewhere in the lower-half of the top ten at Nationals last year.

After Googling him and looking at his wiki page, he finished 9th last year. Not coached by the same team as Ross, unsure about choreo. He was also on a TSL interview with Caroline Zhang; they're either close friends or dating, but I can't recall which.

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Here are Grant and Caroline in Rome last year. Everybody say … awwww!

http://figureskatersonline.com/granthochstein/site/wp-content/uploads/IMG_5255-300x225.jpg

Grant is coached by Karen Kwan and Peter Oppegaard, and he also coaches at the Kwan's rink in Artesia. He's a complete skater who only needs a reliable quad to move up. He is making progress, getting closer each time out, but I don't think he has landed a clean quad in competition yet.