Boot materials: leather vs non-leather

I have a question about boot designs.

If you get suedes or a non leather type of materials or any other designs... does this make the boot break down faster at all as opposed to having the regular leather materials? I like a lot of stiffness in my ankles on the boot so was just wondering.

Thanks

A very incomplete answer

I have suede boots (Graf Edmonton Specials) right now, and I can tell you they have a lot of friction on the ice if the side of the boot touches - e.g., lunges virtually bring me to a complete stop unless I use boot covers that cover everything (which kind of defeats the appearance point of suede), as would be edges that are deep enough (e.g., good underpushes) to brush the ice. I would prefer smooth leather. Even with boot covers, if part of the leather becomes uncovered, it creates a lot of friction.

Suede only modifies the top, visible layer, and I'm not sure it has a significant affect on stiffness, or lifetime.

The extreme stiffness of those boots has also killed my ability to "shoot the duck", and if I were strong enough to do a low sit spin, it would kill that too. Because the top of the boot isn't flexible enough - when I bend deeply, the front of my leg pushes the boot forward, pushing the toe pick into the ice. But that problem would apply to any very stiff boot, regardless of material.

And the extra stiffness they applied to the outsole (thick leather presumably infused with adhesives) and the heel (not sure of the material) makes it rather difficult to mount and remount blades. I had to drill several sizes of pilot hole to create the screw holes, it is very difficult to keep those holes vertical as the screw goes in, and drilling dulled the drill bits. I haven't bothered yet (after several months) to drill holes for a permanent mount.

In fairness, I have no business using such a stiff boot. A good freestyle skater might break in the front of the boot, and make it more flexible. I mostly do ice dance moves, and rarely try more than a half rotation jump. Edmonton Specials were designed for triple and quad jumps. A person who had trouble doing deep edges (as expected in ice dance) would have trouble doing it with such stiff boots, since deep edges are helped by sideways bends at the ankle. Graf never advertised the boots as optimal for ice dance - they are among their highest end freestyle boots. But I got mine (used) essentially free, and I can't currently afford what I really would like.

Boots that are much too stiff for you, of any material, will likely last a very long time - maybe longer than you can stand using them. My old Klingbeils lasted me about 12 years (a few thousand hours on-ice), though they were really broken down in 11. They were rebuilt by Klingbeil after 6, but could probably have lasted another year or more without the rebuild, despite very poor fit (not Klingbeil's fault). The rebuild substantially increased their lifetime. My current boots will probably last as long the rest of my life (I'm in my late 50's), if I can stand using them. In principle, I don't think super-stiff boots are all that great an idea. If you can afford it, maybe it is better to go with boots that meet your current needs, rather than getting something designed to last forever.

The Klingbeils often claimed that leather has a much longer lifetime than composites. I have no data to confirm or deny that claim. Perhaps others do?

We do all know that one of the biggest factors in boot lifetime is fit. If your foot fits your boot quite precisely, the boot lasts a lot longer. Likewise, if you let the boot rot and mildew, by not letting it dry out uncovered in a reasonably low humidity moderate temperature environment (like your home??) between uses, it may literally only last a few months.

I know this has been a very incomplete answer. It's the best I can do.

Do you mean if you get a regular boot but have a cut out with a heart or something in suede? I've wondered about boot integrity with the cutouts, but maybe they are set high enough to maintain stiffness. My daughter is in silver stars, there is no leather in her boots.

I can’t address non-leather materials (such as composites used by Edea); I have no experience with them. As for smooth vs. suede leather, here is some info I gathered about a year ago, when I was deciding whether to buy suede boots. This info was based on research, discussions with a Jackson rep, and discussions with a skate tech (who is a coach, an ex-pro, and an ex-competitor, and who has skated with a variety of boots). I assume we are talking about relatively high-end freestyle boots.


(1) Smooth leather is generally fabricated from the top-grain side of the hide; suede leather is generally fabricated from the under side of the hide. As such, we would initially expect smooth leather to be tougher and more durable than suede leather.


(2) However, there are other variables to consider, such as additives, processing, and thickness.


(3) The Jackson rep told me that their suede leather is thicker than their smooth leather. Not sure about other manufacturers.


(4) The top-of-the-line men’s Jacksons are the Elite Supremes. They come in four versions: smooth regular, suede regular, smooth stiff, and suede stiff. Surprisingly, the suede regular is stiffer than the smooth regular, and the suede stiff is stiffer than the smooth stiff.


(5) One level below the top end is the Elite. This was the model I was interested in. A year ago, it came only in suede leather. A smooth leather version has since been introduced. Both are rated at the same stiffness value. I bought the Elite suede and have been skating with it 5-6 times/wk since mid Jan. My previous boots were an old pair of Riedell Royals (smooth leather). As to whether the suede model and the smooth model with initially the same stiffness will break down at the same rate, I don’t know.


(6) With respect to cosmetics, scratches will show up readily on smooth leather, and not at all on suede leather (unless the scratches are really deep). On the other hand, it’s easier to polish smooth leather than suede leather when they start to look ratty.


(7) With respect to maintenance, smooth leather is easier to take care of than suede leather. Dirt, slush, and water are easily wiped off of smooth leather. Dirt, slush, and water tend to cling to suede leather, and get embedded in the nap. For drying smooth leather, I used a chamois skin. This doesn’t work well on suede leather. For drying suede leather, I use a microfiber wipe, which has some nap to it. The Jackson rep recommended treating suede leather periodically with water repellant. My skate tech never bothered, and said his Jackson suede boots held up well, even when exposed to water and slush (he said surfaces for ice shows were often atrocious). I tested my suede boots by drizzling water on them. Freshly treated with water repellant, the water will roll off. As the water repellant starts to wear off, the water will stop rolling off, but will form beads. As the water repellant wears off further, the water will soak in. I use water repellant (but I tend to be conservative with my gear).


(8) One unexpected advantage of suede: laces do not slip, due to the high friction between the laces and the suede. As you repeatedly lace and unlace, the suede surface starts to lose its nap on the regions rubbed on by the laces, but the surface is still rougher than that of smooth leather.


(9) In conclusion, I was first apprehensive about getting suede. But overall, I’m now glad I did.

Thank you for your responses. Your responses are exactly what i was looking for, ie: the differences between suede vs. smooth leather. I find it very interesting

You're welcome. Glad I could be of help. Was afraid you'd be bored stiff.

And then there is the coolness factor. When I tried them on at the shop, one of the workers there saw them, and said, "Waay cool". When my coach saw them, she said, "Those are reaaaly cool!" I haven't seen anyone else at my rink with suede, but the Jackson rep told me that, for their high-end boots, they sell more suede than smooth.

I agree they're cool. I love the classic look of skates but lately I feel like trying something new. The colored suedes are so pretty

Incidentally, most "leather conditioners" (e.g., Lexol, a brand often chosen by skaters because it doesn't alter the color of smooth leather much), which are substance which help keep leather supple, probably by lubricating the fibers to slide against each other, warn not to use them on suede.

I use Pedag Liquid Waterproofer. It's a German product, but available from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Pedag-Eco-Fri...942&sr=8-2&keywords=pedag+liquid+waterproofer). I specifically confirmed with the manufacturer that it contains no conditioners that would soften suede. Most protectors for suede are aerosol sprays, which I avoid if at all possible (don't care to breathe in all that muck; and respirators are uncomfortable). The Pedag product is different; it's a liquid. The bottle has a built in plunger valve and sponge-tip applicator.