Difficulty with RBO edge during crossovers?

I'm having a really hard time staying on my RBO edge during my CCW backwards crossovers. It seems that my foot would only stay in a RBO long enough for me to cross my foot over, and then it would just collapse back to a RBI edge. I don't seem to have an issue holding my LBO edge for my CW backwards crossovers. During my lesson, my coach told me to try leaning more towards the inside of the circle with more weight towards my right hip. I keep trying but it doesn't seem to help much, any more weight into my right foot and I feel like I would fall over!

Does anyone have any advice?

in addition to leaning, i suggest also facing your shoulders towards the center of the circle. think of your shoulders and hips as a rectangle, and try to have that rectangle face the center of the circle, in addition to leaning. or try practicing some backwards edges, too. bending your knees really helps with the cross. i struggle with crossovers too and my coach would tell me to practice the cross on a straight line. so stand on a straight line on the ice and then cross your leg over like a crossover as if you were walking sideways on the ice over the line. try to stay balanced and have your arms in the same position you would have them for moving crossovers. focus on the edge position. repetition is important. at first it might feel pointless but you just have to keep trying. sometimes repetition is all it takes.

I agree with Yuzushenko. Your shoulders and arms should be aligned directly over the circle you're skating on, with your forward arm (left arm) in front, chest facing the inside of the circle and eyes looking over your leading shoulder (the right shoulder), which should be pulled WAY back. When you do this, it should be easier for you to get your weight farther back on the right blade and stay on the RBO edge.

One question for you: Do you only have trouble holding a back outside edge when you're doing crossovers or do you also have trouble staying on a RBO edge when you just do edges by themselves? If it's always, then I would suspect your blade mounting or your anatomy. But if it's only when doing crossovers, then I would suspect your shoulders and head might not be in the correct position.

Try to figure out whether the problem is psychological (you don't feel safe on your outside edges), or physical.

I henceforth assume the problem is wholly physical, and is related to equipment problems.

#3 below is a likely explanation - but I would make sure #1 and #2 are correct first.

1. If your foot isn't as tight as you can stand, without hurting or squishing your toes together, the boot may be too loose, by size or by lacing, so you tend to lose control of what the boot is doing - in which case you need to tie the laces tighter, or add stuff inside to take up space.

2. I would look first at whether it is equally easy to reach an inside or outside edge before you have put much weight on the foot. In particular, I want the relative height of the left and right sides of the insole to be such that when I put my foot on the ice, it naturally places the edge in the middle, between the inside and outside edges, and I want to have equal pressure on the left and right sides of the bottom of my foot. E.g., if your foot is easier to put down initially on an inside edge than an outside edge, stick tape underneath one side of the insole. I think that for most people, you would stick the tape on the bottom of the insole underneath the inside edge of your foot. (However, for reasons I don't fully understand, some people find it works better to stick the tape on the bottom of the insole underneath the outside edge of your foot, so try that too.)

The front and back of your foot are different, so you can use a different taping front and back to reach both forward and outside edges symmetrically

3. Is it equally easy to hold inside and outside edges in 1-foot glides - including RBI and RBO edges, once the initial edge has been placed?

Many people have one or both feet collapse asymmetrically as they put weight on them. If it is substantially easier to hold inside edges than outside edges while gliding on one foot, your blade may be mounted "wrong", for moves beyond the first several lessons, as many (perhaps most) beginner blades are. What you probably want to have happen is for the foot to naturally hold the edge that you initially put it down on. Offsetting the mount to the inside may make your weight tend to shift to the outside, as you put weight on it, which is what you want.

The front and back of your foot are different, so you can use a different sideways offset front and back, so you can hold forward and backward edges.

Note that placing tape between the outsole of the boot, and one side of the blade mounting plates, has almost the same effect - but may be better if there isn't enough space inside the boot for tape under the insole, and your foot feels too tight.

If your boots and blades are set up to make you naturally symmetric, and it is still hard to hold your outside edges, then body posture, as talked about above, muscle strengthening, and lots of practice, are all you can do.

Practice pivots (it's the things the guys do in death spirals). Try to do them many many times - see if you can do a long edge before putting your toe pick in. But this will get you used to how your foot should feel and the pressure of your blade as you do the RBO edge. Also, practice waltz jumps on a circle, and try to stay on the circle when you land.

I agree that it could be equipment problems too or the mount of your blade. For example, my feet are such that when my blades are set "normally" I can't seem to easily land my jumps on a RBO edge, but if I shift the blade ever so slightly to the left (not suggesting you do, everyone's feet are different), I find it much easier. When you stand up straight on your skates, your feet should naturally point very slightly outwards (like a V).

Off-ice you could do two things:

1) With your skates on, find a wall. Stand just more than an arm's length from the wall. Stand on your right skate while holding onto the wall... and then lean to the right. Now bend your right knee up and down while your left leg stays in the air to the side and back (like somebody landing a jump). Look down as you do this - the top of your knee should be bending over the right side of your skating foot (if you can't see your skate on the left side of your bending knee, then you're not leaning enough). Repeat this about 15-20 times or until you get tired. This can also be done on-ice against the boards.

2) Without skates on, you just need to get used to the sensation of using the sides of your feet (good skating/edges depends on this). Stand up straight, barefoot, on a floor, now shift your weight onto the various sides of your foot. First shift your weight to the right so that the only part of your feet you're standing on is the right edge of your right foot and the right edge of your left foot (so, a left inside edge and a right outside edge). Then stand back on your full feet again, and then repeat this, shifting your weight to the other side (a left outside edge, and a right inside edge). During all of this, try to keep your torso as upright as possible and a strong core (tighten your abs), as if it doesn't matter what your legs are doing. This will teach you to get a feel for edges while keeping your weight on top of your skates (instead of shifting your weight as you move onto an edge, which is causing the sensation of falling over). Try not to use your arms... although you can use them at first to balance. The key is learning to keep your torso over your centre of balance even though you're leaning on the edges of your feet.

Hope that helps!

Query said:

2. I would look first at whether it is equally easy to reach an inside or outside edge before you have put much weight on the foot. In particular, I want the relative height of the left and right sides of the insole to be such that when I put my foot on the ice, it naturally places the edge in the middle, between the inside and outside edges, and I want to have equal pressure on the left and right sides of the bottom of my foot. E.g., if your foot is easier to put down initially on an inside edge than an outside edge, stick tape underneath one side of the insole. I think that for most people, you would stick the tape on the bottom of the insole underneath the inside edge of your foot. (However, for reasons I don't fully understand, some people find it works better to stick the tape on the bottom of the insole underneath the outside edge of your foot, so try that too.)

Click to expand...

May I ask what you mean by taping the soles? I also find outside edges way more difficult to hold than inside edges, and I suspect it's due to fallen arches. Would be interesting to try some DIY remedies before having to get insoles.

Explanation of "Taping the soles"

petitebrie said:

May I ask what you mean by taping the soles? I also find outside edges way more difficult to hold than inside edges, and I suspect it's due to fallen arches. Would be interesting to try some DIY remedies before having to get insoles.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry if I was unclear. I'm also sorry for the delay!

The idea is to take out the insoles, and stick tape under them, to change the effective shape of the insole. Many people find that tape under the inside or the outside of the foot provides support for that side of the foot, and significantly affects the way they skate. Then you put the insoles back in.

There are similar games you can play with the front/back of the foot, effectively increasing or decreasing heal height.

If there isn't room inside the skate to do this, you can alternately "shim" your blades - place tape or other material between the boot sole or heel and the relevant mounting plate. You have to be careful that the plate lays without pressure flat against the boot surface, or you will warp the blade.

I discuss these things at more length at http://mgrunes.com/boots/boots.html - but if you didn't follow what I said here, I'm not sure that page will be any easier to understand. It helps a lot to be able to feel and understand what your foot is doing inside your boot.

It's much clearer now, thanks! Very interesting guide on your website, I'll give taping a try, now.