2016 Canadian Nationals Senior Pairs SP

TSN's full coverage on the pairs event (group 1 & 2)
https://youtu.be/G497U0wZEO8

edit: seems the track has been muted due to copyright, I'll upload the clip to Dailymotion instead
Group 1: http://dai.ly/x3nz4zm
Group 2: http://dai.ly/x3nz5ly

SarahSynchro said:

Here's S/B

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uaXLtBnyfYk

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That backstage shot of Kirsten, she looked in a lot of pain :hopelessness:

kresslia said:

Yeah, I guess she kinda brought it upon herself, but I do understand her reasoning for breaking up with Dylan. She's just such a treat to watch, I wish she had a better partner.

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Well in a way the problem is she isn't that far above him - that's why they fell and she hurt herself. He has poor technique or lack of strength or both

Meagan was so disappointed, but disappointed in a hopeless way. You can see that they have been struggling.

Hyena said:

That was a terrifying fall for MT/M. I was worried about the lift, too. I really, really, really hope she's okay. Honestly, I wouldn't blame her if she ended the partnership after this.

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Ended it for what? She already left a much better partner for this and turned down a much better available one at the time too. Both of those things were her right, and I am sure her decisions made sense to her at the time, but now we are in the middle of the quad. She has been very vocal that her main goal in life is the next Olympics. This means she'd have to find an available Canadian partner who is better than Marinaro. I cannot readily think of any available Canadian pairs men right now at her level. If anyone can, let me know. There is a chance certain men might theoretically be able to leave a partnership to partner with her since she's better than their partners, but they'd have to carefully weigh if that's worth it given her history of partner dumping, where they are in the cycle with their own partnership and so on, and also these men aren't exactly the cream of the crop either- better than Marinaro but not OMG awesome. I think she is kind of stuck for now unless she's willing to sit out the next Olys (which with a partner like this she'll probably be doing anyway) and to be honest I don't feel so bad for her except for that I do sincerely hope she won't get seriously hurt (and she may want to consider splitting from him and sitting out the next Olys just to avoid that outcome, frankly).

Skater Boy said:

Well in a way the problem is she isn't that far above him - that's why they fell and she hurt herself. He has poor technique or lack of strength or both

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I think this guy is too small for Kirsten. She needs someone like Eric Radford or Bruno Massot. But both of them are not available and hardly ever will be.

blue_idealist said:

Mervin Tran was also available, although I like him and Marissa Castelli together.

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Oh yes, but he is even smaller than Michael Marinaro. I don't think that Mervin would ever lifted Kirsten.

tulosai said:

Ended it for what? She already left a much better partner for this and turned down a much better available one at the time too. Both of those things were her right, and I am sure her decisions made sense to her at the time, but now we are in the middle of the quad. She has been very vocal that her main goal in life is the next Olympics. This means she'd have to find an available Canadian partner who is better than Marinaro. I cannot readily think of any available Canadian pairs men right now at her level. If anyone can, let me know. There is a chance certain men might theoretically be able to leave a partnership to partner with her since she's better than their partners, but they'd have to carefully weigh if that's worth it given her history of partner dumping, where they are in the cycle with their own partnership and so on, and also these men aren't exactly the cream of the crop either- better than Marinaro but not OMG awesome. I think she is kind of stuck for now unless she's willing to sit out the next Olys (which with a partner like this she'll probably be doing anyway) and to be honest I don't feel so bad for her except for that I do sincerely hope she won't get seriously hurt (and she may want to consider splitting from him and sitting out the next Olys just to avoid that outcome, frankly).

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I was honestly thinking that she may decide her health is more important than making it to the next Olympics and either retire or end the partnership accepting that she may never find another partner. I don't want her to stop skating but it may be difficult to get that trust back.

gordana said:

Oh yes, but he is even smaller than Michael Marinaro. I don't think that Mervin would ever lifted Kirsten.

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Mervin is 1.75 m or about 5 ft 9 inches; Kirsten is only 1.49 m or around 4 ft 10 inches- 11 whole inches shorter than him. She is one of the shortest women in figure skating. That is definitely enough of a gap for him to be able to lift her. As proof of this Marissa Castelli is actually TALLER than Kirsten, at 1.51 m (around 4 ft 11 inches). His former partner was right in this same range, 1.46 m (4 ft 9 inches).

Marinaro is literally the weakest lifter I have ever seen in competitive seniors pairs skating who is capable of getting GP assignments (I have seen a few comparably weak lifters at B events, but literally he is the weakest I have ever seen on the GP). Kirsten and her height is not the problem- she is literally one of the smallest skaters in pairs skating. At his height and weight Marinaro should easily be able to lift her; that he can't is his problem. He is not actually short, and is over a whole foot taller than Kirsten. The problem is he is weak, period.

Size is overrated. Look at Cong Han, one of the best in the world. Technique, synchronized partnership, and, yes, strength and its effective use, are all more important than a hulky body.

dasani said:

TSN's full coverage on the pairs event (group 1 & 2)
https://youtu.be/G497U0wZEO8

edit: seems the track has been muted due to copyright, I'll upload the clip to Dailymotion instead
Group 1: http://dai.ly/x3nz4zm
Group 2: http://dai.ly/x3nz5ly

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Thank you so much, dasani!

tulosai said:

Marinaro is literally the weakest lifter I have ever seen in competitive seniors pairs skating who is capable of getting GP assignments (I have seen a few comparably weak lifters at B events, but literally he is the weakest I have ever seen on the GP). Kirsten and her height is not the problem- she is literally one of the smallest skaters in pairs skating. At his height and weight Marinaro should easily be able to lift her; that he can't is his problem. He is not actually short, and is over a whole foot taller than Kirsten. The problem is he is weak, period.

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I don't agree with this at all. There are a lot of things that go into lifting, and strength is only one of the factors. There is also technique, coordination and timing, and what the girl is doing to support herself and help with the lift. KMT/MM are definitely a work in progress, and I think we should all give both of them a bit of break. Gauthier talks about needing at least 3 seasons to know whether or not a team is going to work. This year is only in year 2, and when you consider they made a big coaching and life change for both of them, you could really call it year 1. I don't think there is anything wrong with Michael's strength. You can see on him that he is in the best physical shape he has ever been. (The same is true with KMT. She looks great.) We should also keep in mind he turned 24 literally a couple of weeks ago. He is still young, and the body develops until 24 or 25, depending on a young man's genetics. Michael, I believe, has only ever skated with Margaret Purdy, who is much taller with a different body type. Making a change to skate with KMT would mean completely relearning technique and figuring out new timing. It was also a coaching change for him last year. KMT was also used to working with a much older and experienced partner, who is probably one of the best lifters in the world. She grew up a good singles skater, but came to pairs later. She has things to learn in this as well, and doesn't have the experience to make the adjustments. They didn't make the changes in KW last year. This year, after completely changing training environments, they have been both breaking down their skating and starting again. KMT talked about going to Montreal as being a whole new world, and a whole new way train. It's going to take time. They were still pretty rough at the beginning of the season, but they are looking really good right now. I was so impressed with how they recovered so quickly after that horrendous fall, and the lifts are straighter and stronger. Again, about technique and timing. (I remember being in the arena when KMT and Dylan had an absolute meltdown in the Free in Moncton - the whole program, and then came back stronger than ever the next year. KMT and Michael came back in the same program. I was very impressed with them.)

As for the accident last night, I really hope they BOTH are feeling ok. He looked like he could have knocked the wind out of him, falling on his chest like that, and could have broken some ribs. He did a good job trying to save her, even though she fell quite hard still.

NorthernDancers said:

I don't agree with this at all. There are a lot of things that go into lifting, and strength is only one of the factors. There is also technique, coordination and timing, and what the girl is doing to support herself and help with the lift.

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Yes, I don't mean he is just physically weak (though he is), when I say he is the weakest male lifter I mean he is weak in everything you mention, and in fact in most pairs elements. I don't think Kirsten is the problem not only because she is small, but since she managed to support herself fine with other partners and in some cases you can clearly see her use her strength as the only factor that makes the lift go up at all. In trying to keep my rant as short as possible I neglected to mention these things but am glad you spoke up so I have the opportunity to do so.

I think he suffers from some confidence issues, and he, along with KMT, is relearning technique, timing and pairs elements. The partner change is radical for both of them, but especially him. And to do that under the relentless scrutiny that comes with being elite senior, is extra tough. She's a tough, scrappy, and sometimes overpowering personality. He's much calmer and sweeter, which probably makes the transition more difficult when he's under such a microscope with high expectations. They both need time and work. Montreal is the right place for them. Let's see where they are at in 2 years before proclaiming either one of them "bad" or "awful" or "weak". From what I saw last night, they have a lot of long-term potential.

NorthernDancers said:

The partner change is radical for both of them. And to do that under the relentless scrutiny that comes with being elite senior, is extra tough.

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All this applies even more to I/M. Or S/M. Or S/S at the beginning of their partnership. Others, too...

I'm just getting to watch this now, and my god, I love I/M. Dylan is such an amazing partner and their chemistry is incredible

Pasdedeux said:

All this applies even more to I/M. Or S/M. Or S/S at the beginning of their partnership. Others, too...

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Sure. Except, looking at the guys, Dylan is over 30 years old with Olympic experience and Massot is 26 with more senior international experience. (It's escaping right now who is S/S.) Lubov was away for awhile, but she has trained as a pair skater for many years and Aliona has been on the world podium countless times. Watching the skating tonight, I stand by my opinion. KMT and Michael have made tremendous progress this season. His lifts are so much better than before, and the throws looked really on tonight. I like the change in choreography this season. They definitely have potential. Depending on what D/R do over the next couple of years, it could be a 3-way battle between S/B, MT/M, and I/M in any order.

I'm not a huge fan of MT/M 2.0, but they have definitely improved a great deal since last year.

NorthernDancers said:

Depending on what D/R do over the next couple of years, it could be a 3-way battle between S/B, MT/M, and I/M in any order.

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It will be fun, our pairs are very strong right now. Though, tbh, I don't really think it will be all that close between S/B and those two (especially MT/M) going forward unless they run into a wall. They're improving at such a fast pace and the sky's the limit for them. I/M have obviously improved too, I just feel like S/B are so young and already so bloody good. From 119 last year at Nats to 141 this year.

This is probably the most excited I've ever been about our pairs. D/R do their thing, and I/M and S/B are just precious. I love them. All 3 more than capable of top 10 at Worlds. Funny thing is about a year ago everyone was unsure about our pairs beyond D/R.

kresslia said:

This is probably the most excited I've ever been about our pairs. D/R do their thing, and I/M and S/B are just precious. I love them. All 3 more than capable of top 10 at Worlds. Funny thing is about a year ago everyone was unsure about our pairs beyond D/R.

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I think people were a lot less worried by the end of last season as compared to the beginning. It was a bit of a shock to have four of the top 5 pairs split. But then with the rise of S/B, and the MT/M partnership producing two teams with potential, things started to look up pretty quickly.