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We need a dislike button for men's withdrawals:hpull:
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2016 US Nationals Withdrawals
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Thank you, karne. I have just updated the Original Post of the Predictions Thread accordingly.
As I haven't been online much over the past week due to things going on in real life, I also took the opportunity to check the Provisional Entry List PDF to see if there were any other changes. And there were.
Firstly, Kseniya PONOMARYOVA / Oleg ALTUKHOV have been restored to the PDF, having been removed in the first update.
Secondly, Haven DENNEY / Brandon FRAZIER are no longer on the PDF, having previously only been missing from the draft Practice Group lists. So, is it official that they have now withdrawn?
I'll reply to the discussion I started about Pairs entries in a separate post shortly.
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Oh Sam! You really are a breath of fresh air in what is by definition a gloomy thread!
CaroLiza_fan
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gkelly, thank you so much for your comprehensive post addressing pretty much everything I brought up, and more!
As ever, I am in total awe of your knowledge!
Firstly, apologies for the reference to ages when talking about levels. In the heat of the moment, I had forgotten that it was America that this discussion was about, and was thinking in European terms (probably because I was thinking about the contrast in the numbers of Pairs couples in America to what there is in Russia).
I found your discussion about training very interesting. Although I was thinking along the lines of "America is a large country, so you would expect there to be a large number of couples", I didn't allow for the fact that there are not as many Pairs coaches as there are Singles coaches, and that couples would have to make the commitment to go potentially very large distances to them so as to train with the best coaches.
And I was really shocked to hear that some rinks don't actually allow Pairs skating in regular practice sessions. Yes, I can understand the safety aspects to other skaters on the ice (i.e. somebody might get dropped on top of you!), but even so. No wonder that there are smaller numbers of people competing in Pairs!
It hadn't actually dawned on me that Pairs training would be far more expensive. But it makes sense when you think about it properly. The way I was thinking was that you could take two Singles skaters, and then introduce the Pairs elements during their normal training times. But, thinking about it realistically, learning the skills required for Pairs would need very intensive training. And the coach would need to be paid extra for all the extra work involved.
It is a real shame about the lack of funding meaning that the financial burden falls completely on the skaters and their families. But, it is the same over here in the UK.
As for your comparison between the number of girls and number of boys taking to the ice. Most little girls want to be a princess, and ice skaters are seen like that. So, I am not surprised that there are more girls taking up skating than boys.
But I would never have imagined that there was a "lack" of male skaters in America.
A lack of boys taking up skating is a real problem over here in the UK. It is affecting all categories where guys can compete - Men's, Pairs and Dance. And, myself and TheGrandSophy have made our feelings about it very clear in the thread about the CBBC series "Ice Stars".
Yes, male skaters in America probably suffer from the same attitudes as over here (skating = gay), but there always seemed to be a LOT of guys competing in your Nationals. So, I assumed that there were large numbers of guys not worrying about what people think and taking up skating anyway.
So, thank you for letting us know that this is not just a problem in the British Isles. It even happens in America.
Overall, the points that you and CoyoteChris made were very enlightening.
Thank you both
CaroLiza_fan
As ever, I am in total awe of your knowledge!
Firstly, apologies for the reference to ages when talking about levels. In the heat of the moment, I had forgotten that it was America that this discussion was about, and was thinking in European terms (probably because I was thinking about the contrast in the numbers of Pairs couples in America to what there is in Russia).
I found your discussion about training very interesting. Although I was thinking along the lines of "America is a large country, so you would expect there to be a large number of couples", I didn't allow for the fact that there are not as many Pairs coaches as there are Singles coaches, and that couples would have to make the commitment to go potentially very large distances to them so as to train with the best coaches.
And I was really shocked to hear that some rinks don't actually allow Pairs skating in regular practice sessions. Yes, I can understand the safety aspects to other skaters on the ice (i.e. somebody might get dropped on top of you!), but even so. No wonder that there are smaller numbers of people competing in Pairs!
It hadn't actually dawned on me that Pairs training would be far more expensive. But it makes sense when you think about it properly. The way I was thinking was that you could take two Singles skaters, and then introduce the Pairs elements during their normal training times. But, thinking about it realistically, learning the skills required for Pairs would need very intensive training. And the coach would need to be paid extra for all the extra work involved.
It is a real shame about the lack of funding meaning that the financial burden falls completely on the skaters and their families. But, it is the same over here in the UK.
As for your comparison between the number of girls and number of boys taking to the ice. Most little girls want to be a princess, and ice skaters are seen like that. So, I am not surprised that there are more girls taking up skating than boys.
But I would never have imagined that there was a "lack" of male skaters in America.
A lack of boys taking up skating is a real problem over here in the UK. It is affecting all categories where guys can compete - Men's, Pairs and Dance. And, myself and TheGrandSophy have made our feelings about it very clear in the thread about the CBBC series "Ice Stars".
Yes, male skaters in America probably suffer from the same attitudes as over here (skating = gay), but there always seemed to be a LOT of guys competing in your Nationals. So, I assumed that there were large numbers of guys not worrying about what people think and taking up skating anyway.
So, thank you for letting us know that this is not just a problem in the British Isles. It even happens in America.
Overall, the points that you and CoyoteChris made were very enlightening.
Thank you both
CaroLiza_fan
Not only to train with the best coaches, but often to find a coach who knows how to teach pairs at all. Because there are fewer pair skaters, there are also fewer coaches who know how to do it.
And then there may not be an appropriate partner for a skater's age, size, skill level, and rotational direction close to home. So if a nationwide partner search finds someone appropriate who lives hundreds or thousands of miles away, someone is going to have to relocate even if both have access to pair training facilities at home.
Often it's a different coach to teach the pair skills. Most pair coaches can and do teach singles as well, but the successful ones at training centers with several levels of competitive pairs may have their schedules full with the pair coaching.
But it's more a matter of how many hours of lessons the skaters take each week, regardless of whether they're all with the same coach or with several different coaches.
As for your comparison between the number of girls and number of boys taking to the ice. Most little girls want to be a princess, and ice skaters are seen like that. So, I am not surprised that there are more girls taking up skating than boys.
But I would never have imagined that there was a "lack" of male skaters in America.
Depends how you define "lack."
By my estimate the sport is about 85% female across the US. In some small towns there may be no male skaters at all. At training centers specializing in dance or pairs the numbers may be closer to even.
At some skill levels in some regions, there may be few enough entries in the men's singles event that most or all advance to sectionals (4 skaters per section advance, with fill-up rules so larger sections get more slots if there wasn't a full field at a smaller section) -- it's not necessary to be in the top half of the field to compete at sectionals. At junior and senior level, where the best guys may have byes, there may be few enough men even at sectionals that most or all can advance to Nationals.
At juvenile and intermediate levels, and even novice level in the larger regions, there may be 50-100 girls competing in the region, with qualifying rounds necessary to narrow the field. So making top 4 in the region and advancing to sectionals can won't necessarily happen even if you finish in the top 10% of the regional field. The ladies' singles event is much more competitive at all levels in terms of making it to sectionals let alone Nationals.
Once you get to Nationals, there should be 12 qualifiers in every event at each level, plus any byes among juniors and senior. But for pairs and dance, and often junior or senior men, that represents the majority and occasionally even every single competitor in that discipline at that level across the country that year.
In ladies events, the number who make it to Nationals are just a tiny percentage of the number of girls who compete at those levels.
Some numbers to illustrate gkelly's well-described points re: numbers of girls vs. numbers of boys in US skating. These are the counts of distinct singles skaters at each of the 5 qualifying levels at regionals & sectionals this year. Those receiving byes at the Jr. and Sr. levels have not yet been included in these numbers:
Juvenile girls: 571
Intermediate ladies: 493
Novice ladies: 266
Junior ladies: 155
Senior ladies: 88
Juvenile boys: 53
Intermediate men: 68
Novice men: 41
Junior men: 31
Senior men: 18
Juvenile girls: 571
Intermediate ladies: 493
Novice ladies: 266
Junior ladies: 155
Senior ladies: 88
Juvenile boys: 53
Intermediate men: 68
Novice men: 41
Junior men: 31
Senior men: 18
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- Dec 4, 2004
So sad....I have two herniated discs and when they happen, you never know where the jelly is going to squirt out and how long it will take to disipate or for that matter what the jelly will impinge upon.....but unless he has surgery, it takes up to five years to heal and recovery from surgery is no fun and the surgery itself isnt the safest......sadly, with the emphasis on the high G load tricks , we can expect to see more and more injuries.....best wishes to RD...and to JB! (Will the last Men's senior please turn out the lights)
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