"8-triple" Ladies Freeskate | Golden Skate

"8-triple" Ladies Freeskate

C

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
This might belong in the Stupid Questions thread (lol), but...

If a woman (who lacked a 3A) wanted to be the first woman to ever do 8 clean triples in a freeskate, couldn't she just replace a 2A with a triple? Her triple wouldn't count for points because of the Zayak rule, but in terms of the actual skate (assuming all triples are clean), she would have technically been the "first woman to do an 8-triple FS". :biggrin:

It'd likely never happen, but if a top skater like Medvedeva was slated to win a medium-tier event (Nebelhorn/Finlandia), and her normal layout is: 3F+3T, 3Z, 3F, 3L, 2A+2T+2T, 3S+3T, 2A, and she knew she would win (had a huge lead after the SP, was clean up until her final jumping pass in the FS)... she could easily change her final 2A to any triple (zero points but still a clean triple): 3F+3T, 3Z, 3F, 3L, 2A+2T+2T, 3S+3T, (any triple)*, and this would be the first ever ladies' 8-triple freeskate. ;)
 
P

pohatta

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Asada did 8 triples in her Sochi LP.

But why settle for 8 when you can do 9!
 
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largeman

largeman

choice beef
Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
The question is, is an 8-triple program still an 8-triple program if it earns points for only 7 triples and earns zero points for the 8th triple? How does that 8th triple count if it has zero BV, and how is such a program "technically" the first ladies 8-triple FS any more than Mao Asada's 8-triple FS (in which every triple earned at least some BV)?
 
Y

YesWay

四年もかけて&#
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
largeman said:
The question is, is an 8-triple program still an 8-triple program if it earns points for only 7 triples and earns zero points for the 8th triple? How does that 8th triple count if it has zero BV, and how is such a program "technically" the first ladies 8-triple FS any more than Mao Asada's 8-triple FS (in which every triple earned at least some BV)?
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This ^

If Zayak'ed jumps (ie. invalid elements) counted, then there'd be no point stopping at 8 triples - May as well Zayak multiple times and go for the first "12 triples" program. Or the first "20 triples" program...
 
M

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
qwerty said:
I'm sure Elaine Zayak could pull off an 8-triple skate as early as the 1980s ;)
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And well, many other skaters could hit that also...
I wonder what would be the max triple number if there was no Zayak rule =)
 
C

Cherryy

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
moriel said:
And well, many other skaters could hit that also...
I wonder what would be the max triple number if there was no Zayak rule =)
Click to expand...

During GPF practices Medvedeva was doing her normal layout with combinations changed to 3-3-3. So that would already be a 9 triple program she's perfectly capable of doing, probably even more.
 
G

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
moriel said:
I wonder what would be the max triple number if there was no Zayak rule =)
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Do we keep the current well-balanced program rules and just remove the restrictions on repeating the same triple?

The current rules allow 7 jump passes in a ladies' freeskate, which can include three jump combinations of two jumps each, or one of them can include three jumps. That would make a total of 11 jumps. One of the jumps must be an axel.

So, if you have a skater who can do triple axel, she could do 11 triple jumps within those slots. She would just have to repeat more than two jumps, or do the same jump more than twice, to fill that slot.

Or any of the combinations could be replaced by a jump sequence. In a jump sequence the number of jump is not limited, but only the two hardest jumps count for points, at 80% of the base value. So if a skater wanted to do, say, 3S, half loop, change feet, 3T, mazurka, waltz jump, 1T, 3T, that should be considered one jump sequence with three triples . . . that would be worth 80% of a 3S+3T combination.


Or are you asking, what if there were no rules at all, how many triples could a skater execute within a 4-minute time period without stopping? Should she also include 3 spins and a step sequence and choreo sequence, even if they're all as simple and brief as possible to save time and energy for more triples?
 
Mathman

Mathman

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
gkelly said:
so, if you have a skater who can do triple axel, she could do 11 triple jumps within those slots. She would just have to repeat more than two jumps, or do the same jump more than twice, to fill that slot.
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3a, 3t+3t+3t, 3t+3t, 3t+3t, 3t, 3t, 3t. :)
 
Mathman

Mathman

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
gkelly said:
Or are you asking, what if there were no rules at all, how many triples could a skater execute within a 4-minute time period without stopping?
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According to these statistics compiled by coaches Christy Krall and Trevor Laak, no jump requires as long as a full second of air time. A quad toe has about 0.63 seconds in the air and a triple toe less than half a second.

https://skatecoach.wordpress.com/20...ps-a-review-of-minimum-air-times-trevor-laak/

A 4-minute program has 240 seconds. Assuming you didn't waste a lot of time setting up ("telegraphing") you should be able to do a couple hundred easily. :yes:
 
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S

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
WE must be bored waiting for more events to start thinking of this ideas for discussions lol:) But I don't think you can say it was an 8 triple performance if the triple or a triple or more didn't count because that means it is not an 8 triple program - maybe a 8 attempted triples but one or more did not count -still not 8 triples (officially). Gee you need to be a lawyer to figure this all out:)
 
D

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Realistically, I think only Liza is capable of the feat if we're only counting triples that are fully-rotated and taken off correctly.
 
Franklin99

Franklin99

Medalist
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
drivingmissdaisy said:
Realistically, I think only Liza is capable of the feat if we're only counting triples that are fully-rotated and taken off correctly.
Click to expand...

Mao is capable too now that both her 3Lz and 3F-3Lo has been ratified this season. She just needs to put it all together. Liza hasn't landed 1 fully clean 3A this season (keeping my fingers crossed for her to go to the European event or World or WTT). Further proving that a 3A is as much a mental jump as it is a difficult one for both men and ladies.
 
karne

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
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Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Zayak means it doesn't count meaning that it's not an eight-triple program. End of story.

Thinking otherwise is as nonsensical as claiming a skater has a quad in competition when they've never rotated it.
 
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