Gold vs. Wagner

mrrice said:

Does Courtney have a rotation problem? I only saw her at NHK and I thought she had big jumps. What I really liked about Courtney was that she seems like a great competitor. When she missed her triple triple, she didn't panic. She completed the rest of the program with ease and I love the way she performs.

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No. She and Gracie are the only two American ladies that I can think of don't have UR issues (Angela might not, IDK). Well, them and Vivian in juniors...

mrrice said:

If they finish in the order you just wrote??? Even I'd be on the committee. That list has Gracie in Pewter and Courtney and Angela Wang off the podium completely. IMO, Gracie would have to withdraw ( Johnny Weir ) before I'd agree with her being left off a team that includes Polina. I have nothing against Polina but, she's a risk to saving 3 spots and I'd trust Gracie to get her together before Worlds. Similar to Ashley in Sochi.

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In all seriousness, there is still some sentiment that the traditional "first, second and third go to worlds. Period." mantra is most fair to the skaters. Everyone has an equal chance. If you mess up, goodbye Felicia. That's sports.

This has gradually been replaced by the view that the USFSA, through it's selection committee, should intervene to choose the people that they think are most likely to win medals at worlds.

Me, I never liked "committees" very much. Decide it on the ice. :yes:

The drawback to the "one, two, three" model is that the judges might be tempted to cheat and give out Nationals medals to the skaters that they want at worlds, regardless of their performances.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave.

I think to not be named to the team, Gracie would have to take the ice and flop on her back like an overturned turtle the whole time!
As for Gracie or Ashley, I've always favored Ashley's style. But with the Worlds in the US, I'm hoping they both skate clean and the best lady wins the night. I want one of these girls to make it to the podium this year at worlds, and I hope they both make strong cases for that here.

Ashley, most definitely. I love her fierceness, her spirit and her humility.
I think Ashley connects to the audience, she lays out all her emotions for us to see. I would love to see her win.
Also, Nagasu may be the dark horse here, ya never know.
I think we are in for one heck of a competition , Good Luck to all the women!! Fair judging please!!!

Layback11 said:

No. She and Gracie are the only two American ladies that I can think of don't have UR issues (Angela might not, IDK). Well, them and Vivian in juniors...

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That's what I thought. I don't think Angela has a rotation problem either. How old is Courtney Hicks? I was so impressed with her composure at NHK and I can only hope it wasn't fluke as She has future champion written all over her.

Mathman said:

In all seriousness, there is still some sentiment that the traditional "first, second and third go to worlds. Period." mantra is most fair to the skaters. Everyone has an equal chance. If you mess up, goodbye Felicia. That's sports.

This has gradually been replaced by the view that the USFSA, through it's selection committee, should intervene to choose the people that they think are most likely to win medals at worlds.

Me, I never liked "committees" very much. Decide it on the ice. :yes:

The drawback to the "one, two, three" model is that the judges might be tempted to cheat and give out Nationals medals to the skaters that they want at worlds, regardless of their performances.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave.

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Mathman........I couldn't respond right away because I was laughing so hard at "goodbye Felicia" Here's the thing. My ballet teacher used to say.. "Honey, The Sympathy Train Does Not Stop At My Station" If you have a bad audition, you don't get the part! I don't like this committee thing at all. When the light's come up, you deliver or you go home. That's how it is for everyone in the performing arts and you learn that from an early age. At least I did.

mrrice said:

That's what I thought. I don't think Angela has a rotation problem either. How old is Courtney Hicks? I was so impressed with her composure at NHK and I can only hope it wasn't fluke as She has future champion written all over her.

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19, I think. Pretty sure she's close in age to Gracie, but slightly younger.

Mathman said:

In all seriousness, there is still some sentiment that the traditional "first, second and third go to worlds. Period." mantra is most fair to the skaters. Everyone has an equal chance. If you mess up, goodbye Felicia. That's sports.

This has gradually been replaced by the view that the USFSA, through it's selection committee, should intervene to choose the people that they think are most likely to win medals at worlds.

Me, I never liked "committees" very much. Decide it on the ice. :yes:

The drawback to the "one, two, three" model is that the judges might be tempted to cheat and give out Nationals medals to the skaters that they want at worlds, regardless of their performances.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave.

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I think it hurts the spirit of the competition and robs the sport of spontaneity.

desertskates said:

I think to not be named to the team, Gracie would have to take the ice and flop on her back like an overturned turtle the whole time!
As for Gracie or Ashley, I've always favored Ashley's style. But with the Worlds in the US, I'm hoping they both skate clean and the best lady wins the night. I want one of these girls to make it to the podium this year at worlds, and I hope they both make strong cases for that here.

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OK, that's a horrible image.

I like them both very much, but I'll give the edge to Ashley. I've always admired her spunk, and I her presentation.

iluvtodd said:

I like them both very much, but I'll give the edge to Ashley. I've always admired her spunk, and I <3 her presentation.

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If there were ever two skaters that I'd love to blend into one. I love Ashley's fire and dramatic performing style. I love Gracie's technical strength and her "Ice Princess" style. Ashley is like a Diva from an Opera and Gracie is like a Prima Ballerina.

mrrice said:

Mathman........I couldn't respond right away because I was laughing so hard at "goodbye Felicia" Here's the thing. My ballet teacher used to say.. "Honey, The Sympathy Train Does Not Stop My Station" If you have a bad audition, you don't get the part! I don't like this committee thing at all. When the light's come up, you deliver or you go home. That's how it is for everyone in the performing arts and you learn that from an early age. At least I did.

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In that case how do you feel about test skates? To me Nationals is its own competition and frankly i wish i was not double as an audition. I don't want it treated as an audition I want it treated as the National Championships! At the same time, I am not crazy about committees. To me test skates are a good compromise and maybe one the USFSA should explore more. It would make byes more logical and palatable and maybe even make skaters less likely to skate through injury.

I kinda feel like Worlds should be made up of the best skaters from the various countries not the skaters who had a good night when i counted, so I do think that the season record should have some impact. I can't help but feel like in the dance world that if a known flake nails an audition, they may still not get the part.

StitchMonkey said:

In that case how do you feel about test skates? To me Nationals is its own competition and frankly i wish i was not double as an audition. I don't want it treated as an audition I want it treated as the National Championships! At the same time, I am not crazy about committees. To me test skates are a good compromise and maybe one the USFSA should explore more. It would make byes more logical and palatable and maybe even make skaters less likely to skate through injury.

I kinda feel like Worlds should be made up of the best skaters from the various countries not the skaters who had a good night when i counted, so I do think that the season record should have some impact. I can't help but feel like in the dance world that if a known flake nails an audition, they may still not get the part.

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The last line of your quote is very true. Fortunately, it almost never happens and here's why. Like the qualifying round at Worlds, Dancers have call backs. If you're auditioning for a lead role, you may have several. I played "Johnny Casino" The guy who sings "Born To Hand Jive in Grease." In a National touring company and I auditioned several times for the part. The first Audition is like a "Cattle Call" and is open to anyone. Then you get a "Call Back" and after that. You Audition for the Producers. It's emotionally draining, trust me.

If you get a chance to see the PLAY, not the movie ,"A Chorus Line" it is very accurate. I remember getting that job and actually crying because by the time I was done with the audition, I was drained and so was everyone else. We all cried....

In my opinion, Ashley has the best program components of choreography and interpretation while Gracie wins in Skating Skills. They both have great programs with good transition, so hopefully both will execute well. But, slight edge to Ashley on program components. When Gracie is on, there is no skater in the world that gets her height and distance on jumps. As others expressed, I want them to skate their best! I hate that there is two months between nationals and worlds because it means they have to peak twice, which is so incredibly hard to do! I'd love for at least one of them to make the world podium, which will be hard considering medvedevas technical and artistic consistency, miyahara's consistency, and strengths of Asada and Radionova. But, they rank in the top 6/7 of those who will be at worlds (the three Russians - whoever it ends up being, the top two Japanese, and Ashley and Gracie). It is possible Carolina Kostner will be at worlds too, but that's the wild card. I don't see Medvedeva, Radionova, or Miyahara making major mistakes, so Ashley and Gracie need to be clean to have a shot! As much as I think Gracie's technique can pull her through, I'd love to see Ashley add a world medal to her career medal haul as time is running out on her.

skylark said:

For me, figure skating is just sport unless there's a fiery emotional connection between skater and her music, between skater and the audience, and/or between skating partners. Ashley is passionate about giving something to the people in the audience; and she interprets her music like nobody's business. She can own a powerful piece of music better than any other woman in the world.

When Gracie's landing her jumps, she can dazzle with her smile and her performance. I like her a lot when she's enjoying her skating. But she lets it all go if her jumps are a little off. And when she skates after someone who's skated a great program, you can see the fear in her eyes from the beginning, and she never gets the program off the ground (ice). Her technique is perfect, so she has the edge in today's scoring system. But in figure skating, technique isn't the whole ball game.

So for me, it's Ashley:luv17: all the way. But I want to see them both skate lights out this week, and both have that confidence boost going into Worlds. I think they're both Real Ladies Skating, and I want them both to skate lights out at Worlds so that the judges will award them scores that demonstrate to the World that figure skating doesn't have to be all about the next new 15 or 16 year old jumpers.

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This. Perfect post. Well said and from the heart. Like Ashley's skating. For me it was frustrating to see Julia winning over Gracie. She was amazing but a little girl. That remains her LP one of my fave skates from the Russians but it is the deep connection I feel to the music. And more than any trick she did it was that face in the red coat in the beginning and ending pose that moved me. The subject matter was far more than the skate I guess I am saying. Well Adelina did knock it out of the park but I preferred what Kostner did and what Yuna did. The difficulty was there but both presented skates I enjoyed a lot and rematch more. Adelina had an ankle injury so next girl to recover from Injury Liza has perfect jump technique and sometimes lands triple axel. Aside from the jumps I do not enjoy her skating. World Champion was out skated by Ashley and thank goodness she got the scores she deserved. She is a woman who has the tricks but presents like no other lady out there. Then this year the Russian girl with the perfect jumps is Evgenia. I enjoy her the most so far of the senior girls but I find her scary skinny and wonder what puberty will do. Not to worry Polina T is amazing and the next Eteri has in the wings. The worlds top skaters in singles are getting younger and shorter and skinnier. It is going the way of gymnastics.

I admit I am tall and I love seeing tall women who can create amazing shapes and I love the balletic body of Polina Edmunds. Her arms are so beautiful to watch. My favorite skaters have worked and matured. I do prefer art over sport and it is nice we still can watch Ashley and Mao develop. Most who win big young don't stay long. I think in a couple years I might appreciate Adelina even more but she may bow out. No one can dominate Russian ladies when one teen after the other sprouts and has the jumps that win championships. Evgenia does not yet deserve the pcs she is getting. Incredible the Russian teens in the last two years. They are winning as jumpers before they have the total package. They might as well call it figure jumping. I find the top men to be more polished than the recent ladies podiums at big events.

Just saying. Look at the hype over the 11 year old who won S Korean Nationals. Yuna who???? That was the impression I got. She is 11 and they are saying she will re write the history of figure skating in South Korea. She is a phenomenal talent but she has a ways to go before she can be called the next Kim Yuna!

Globetrotter said:

As I am an uber where skating skills is concerned - I don't just mean speed but deep edges, control, effortless stroking, multidirectional skating- I got to go for Gracie. I like Ashley's spirit and guts but I personally do not like the OTT performance and her relatively weak SS is really my main issue. Gracie has some of the best basics and technical skills but I so wish she has better competitive nerves. Hope both of them skate well.

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I am unclear what you mean by over the top. Can you give examples of what feels ott in which program? She emotes, she portrays a character which gives great cohesion to a program. The very reason people enjoy her skating so much is Ottawa for you? I just want to understand this. I love her SP. it's full of great moments and the whole thing sings. I look at Satoko who apparently has full rotations and correct edges. She is this lovely tiny doll, perfect pretty princess skater. I find her programs safe predictable not memorable. And because she is a correct jumper well she is growing on me but I feel like I am seeing nothing special. I wonder how the Japanese goers feel to see her take over Maos spot. I am never bored watching Mao. dont get me wrong Miyahara is talented and consistent but I wish she would skate something more modern and not so safe. I sure miss Akikko. So many memorable skates for me.

Mathman said:

In all seriousness, there is still some sentiment that the traditional "first, second and third go to worlds. Period." mantra is most fair to the skaters. Everyone has an equal chance. If you mess up, goodbye Felicia. That's sports.

This has gradually been replaced by the view that the USFSA, through it's selection committee, should intervene to choose the people that they think are most likely to win medals at worlds.

Me, I never liked "committees" very much. Decide it on the ice. :yes:

The drawback to the "one, two, three" model is that the judges might be tempted to cheat and give out Nationals medals to the skaters that they want at worlds, regardless of their performances.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave.

Click to expand...

Well, the national champion always goes. If you edge out a better competitor to win a bronze medal at nationals but have an otherwise a mediocre season, I'm not sure why you would be entitled to a world spot.

Ashley, since she has always been a personal favourite of mine. Gracie's good too, but Ashley just has that extra spark for me.

I like both, but I think Ashley's style is more appealing to me. I'm one of the people who like her SP and her FS is great as well. It's nice to see Ashley's artistry finally receiving the recognition it deserves. In the current field, everyone knows that Mao is by far the most artistic. But when I'm asked who is in 2nd place for artistry after Mao, I always say Ashley. Diva Wagner knows how to shine by selling the programs dramatically. I enjoy her presence on the ice more than the Russians because she's so much fun to watch. Anyway, though Ashley's programs are much more artistic, Gracie's programs are pretty solid as well. Her SP is nice and while I'm not crazy over the FS, it has the potential to be a great showstopper program.

Last season, Gracie was just coming back from missing the GPF from the stress fracture, while Ashley had a very strong FS at the GPF to win the bronze. Ashley had more momentum and thus was more ready in nationals. This year, I think they're virtually equal in where they are at in the moment. Ashley had a nice win at SC while Gracie was very strong and SA and the SP at TEB. Ashley's second assignment...not so much. They placed 5th and 6th in the SP at the GPF, but as the underdog, Ashley raced up to 4th place with her best international free skate ever, while Gracie did not do well. They both had similar ups and downs already so it will be interesting to see who comes out on top here. I put Gracie as 1st and Ashley as 2nd in my predictions, because Gracie has been getting more consistent lately, and when she's clean, she's scary. :scard7:

I'm not too sure who started talking about the third spot in this thread, but I'll just go along with it. I think it'll be a huge fight between Courtney, Polina, Mirai, and Karen for sure. I like to see people who have not gone to Worlds before or have not gone for a long time go there. Mirai has not gone to Worlds since 2010 I believe, so it would be great for her to go. I don't think Courtney has ever gone to Worlds before, so it would be nice to see her go. And Karen was too young last year, and it would be sad if that would've been the only time she had a chance for the world team. I bet everyone will probably bring in their A-game here because they all equally want to go to Boston.

The are exactly even in chances to win based on their previous showings this season, their talent and competition nerves. The are also an 50-50 in my personal preference...so, may the best skater on the night win the crown!