2016 Four Continents Mens SP

zschultz1986 · Feb 19, 2016

noskates said:
I totally disagree that Patrick was never a consistent skater. He hasn't been since he's returned but then I do think he's taking things slowly and building up to Worlds. When you take a year off you don't just automagically get back to your pre-hiatus level. And anybody who puts in the time that an elite skater has to put in is NOT going to aim for 5th place and be satisfied with it. He knows he's on camera when he's in the K&C and he's going to temper his remarks accordingly. He first comes off the ice disgusted with his performance and then - whoa baby - they're taping this. I have great hopes for him and I do hope he pulls it all together before Worlds (since I'll be there...heh!heh!) but I enjoy his skating far more than the jump fests of the other skaters. Just a personal opinion.

I feel Max's lack of skating skills is going to hurt him in the long run. He's made great improvements but isn't there yet. So to succeed, his jumps have to be perfect and that hasn't happened lately. I have no idea which Adam is going to show up at Worlds. He has the goods but has trouble delivering. It's nice to see someone like Grant Hochstein get a chance to compete with the big boys.

Sure, he was upset. He knows what he's capable of and what he did was not what he is capable of. However, that's why you have a coach, to give perspective. I'm not saying you're always going to have that perspective as an elite athlete, and you should get upset when you don't do well. However, it's how you funnel that anger that makes you succeed or not. I bet if he has a decent long, and ends up having a SB, how he did, he'd say something to the effect of "I did better than I have in international competition this year which is good, but I can still do more."

We're not saying 5th is fine. We're saying having perspective and a long view is better than being completely ruled by capriciousness.

zschultz1986 · Feb 19, 2016

golden411icecoverage said:
Huh? Is it that crazy ISU bio listing that is playing tricks with people's memories of the placements at Nats??

To be serious: I think Adam -- the reigning national champion -- and Max will be very supportive of each other as they share the responsibility.

Keeping three spots is going to be an uphill battle for them in Boston.
But my mantra will be Never say never :yes:.

Meanwhile, hugs to Max and to Ross after the SP . And congratulations to Grant for being the top US man.
Best to all in the FS.

LOL, my bad. Yeah I guess that was a Freudian slip on my views on Max and Adam.

zschultz1986 · Feb 19, 2016

dlo2113 said:
Yuna Kim, who took two years off, would argue otherwise. Let's not pretend it's impossible.

1. Patrick Chan is not Yuna Kim. You can not compare like this.
2. Yuna was WAY ahead of the field when she took a break, and it hadn't caught up to her when she came back (except for maybe Mao, because of the rule changes in the short.)
3. Hanyu had caught up to Chan in score when Chan took the break, and the field has exploded past Chan in the year he took off. He's playing catch up in terms of technical content.

HanDomi · Feb 19, 2016

zschultz1986 said:
1. Patrick Chan is not Yuna Kim. You can not compare like this.
2. Yuna was WAY ahead of the field when she took a break, and it hadn't caught up to her when she came back (except for maybe Mao, because of the rule changes in the short.)
3. Hanyu had caught up to Chan in score when Chan took the break, and the field has exploded past Chan in the year he took off. He's playing catch up in terms of technical content.

I think Hanyu catched Chan in when he was still in competition , and actually when Chan was away there was not so much level up in terms of scoring, it happened this season after Hanyu records, and with rise of youngsters of Uno, Jin etc

dailytg20 · Feb 19, 2016

Man, I thought Gracie's kiss and cry reaction was bleak, but Max's expression there looked like a Dorothea Lange photograph from the Dust Bowl era. Maybe it's because his brows are so on fleek that they emphasize the sadness in his eyes. It didn't help that they started playing a song that seemed slow and regretful during the wait. Ross as well, I thought for a second the camera was going to transition to black and white film stock. It also doesn't help that the scoreboard seems to be hard to read in the arena judging from everyone's repeated squinting, Kanako's and her coach's in particular. I had to focus on her and Shoma's reliably pleasant reaction to flush the sadness away.

Also in the video posted without commentary you can hear Patrick and his coach talking about the quality of the ice not being up to par. I think I remember Todd Eldredge saying that the Canadian rinks had the best ice, but I would think at this stage Patrick would be used to skating under varied conditions.

Anyway I hope everyone performs better in the FS, but if they don't, I guess it's better that they get the disasters out of the way here than at worlds.

zschultz1986 · Feb 19, 2016

HanDomi said:
I think Hanyu catched Chan in when he was still in competition , and actually when Chan was away there was not so much level up in terms of scoring, it happened this season after Hanyu records, and with rise of youngsters of Uno, Jin etc

You're correct, that's what I was trying to say at the beginning of #3: Hanyu had caught up and maybe surpassed Chan by the time he took the break. Also, I would say Fernandez had huge improvements in Chan's break year, and Uno and Jin had another year to train, and Hanyu, even though he had a crap year because of China, was still second. But my point remains: The field Yuna came back to was WAY shallower, and pretty much the same field that she left, than the field Chan came back to.

HanDomi · Feb 19, 2016

zschultz1986 said:
You're correct, that's what I was trying to say at the beginning of #3: Hanyu had caught up and maybe surpassed Chan by the time he took the break. Also, I would say Fernandez had huge improvements in Chan's break year, and Uno and Jin had another year to train, and Hanyu, even though he had a crap year because of China, was still second. But my point remains: The field Yuna came back to was WAY shallower, and pretty much the same field that she left, than the field Chan came back to.

Yep in Chan year break, Fernandez benefited mostly with crap season for Hanyu

karne · Feb 19, 2016

dailytg20 said:
Man, I thought Gracie's kiss and cry reaction was bleak, but Max's expression there looked like a Dorothea Lange photograph from the Dust Bowl era. Maybe it's because his brows are so on fleek that they emphasize the sadness in his eyes.

I thought he was actually going to cry when that score came up. It was unbearable.

StitchMonkey · Feb 19, 2016

I have to say that I think the doom and gloom about USA not keeping 3 spots is a little premature and not really fair to Grant. Honestly I am actually more optimistic. Grant sits in 6th, he set a personal best and at least got the rotation on his quad. Before everyone thought it was up to Adam and Max, but I think Grant has potential to contribute as well. Any combination of the three of them could end up in 6th and 7th at worlds.

Yes i know we may not keep them. But how knows what will happen. For now I say good for Grant.

MaiKatze · Feb 19, 2016

The field just got stronger this season, it kind of exploded. I still think that PChan has the potential to win the World Championship or get to the podium. His PCS is just that good. What he can't do - and that has been possible in the past - is make mistakes. Even just that wonky 3A, if we take 4CC as example. He has to skate perfect. It might have worked out when the field wasn't as strong but is it realistic to expect EVERY skater to skate bad? Hanyu, Fernandez, Jin etc. one of them might slip, but all of them? That's the 2016 reality. His competition has grown in numbers, and even in a comeback season the judges won't keep holding him up forever. Not an easy situation. But as I said, I think he can do it. But he must deliver at Worlds. Good for him that it is in NA, that might help.

hippomoomin · Feb 19, 2016

I kind of like the music in a very strange way, but I don't like his skating. His jumps were sloppy and did not deserve the TES he got. His spins are also very average if not below, especially his positions. And his body is like a rubber, can bounce back even if his knee hits the ice.

luenatic said:
I just don't enjoy Uno's performance. The elevator music is not helping either. I want to mute the music while he's skating. It is that distracting.

andromache · Feb 19, 2016

StitchMonkey said:
I have to say that I think the doom and gloom about USA not keeping 3 spots is a little premature and not really fair to Grant. Honestly I am actually more optimistic. Grant sits in 6th, he set a personal best and at least got the rotation on his quad. Before everyone thought it was up to Adam and Max, but I think Grant has potential to contribute as well. Any combination of the three of them could end up in 6th and 7th at worlds.

Yes i know we may not keep them. But how knows what will happen. For now I say good for Grant.

I also say good for Grant! Especially for a skater who probably thought he'd never make it to Worlds. His GP finishes were decent, 4th at Nationals, and (due to unfortunate circumstances) he gets to do more high-level international comps this year. He's a talented skater who has proved he's in the mix among the US men. It'd be nice for him to get some higher PCS though.

Skater Boy · Feb 19, 2016

I wonder if Caroline will be there to cheer Grant on?

da96103 · Feb 19, 2016

zschultz1986 said:
I'm talking about after the Short. No doubt, Brezina will fall a few times, it just depends when. Brezina could be around Max after the short, if he skates well (which is a big if.)

However, Brezina aside, there are 5 skaters I can comfortably put ahead of Max, regardless of what Max does: Hanyu, Fernandez, Jin, Uno, Chan. There are 3 more I can see being even or ahead of Max, all things being equal: Yan, Kovtun, and Bychenko. Bychenko looks better than he did last year, so I'd be guessing he moves up. Ten is a wild card, depends on if he's healthy and if he's ready. We also have to think about a clean Adam Rippon coming into play here.

That's 8 (9 if you include Ten, and 10 if Adam is in the mix.) I'd say that we should be ready for Max to be 7-12th, and for American men to lose a spot. It's not all Max's problem though, I'm just being rough on him because he's gonna have the responsibility as the national champion. It was gonna be hard for the men to keep three spots even if the team was a fully healthy and ready Jason, a ready Max, and Nathan Chen/Adam Rippon.

I hope Adam, Max, and Grant can skate very well for themselves and keep three spots, because it'll be imperative to get those three spots so we can have Jason, Max, and Nathan going next year and putting down good skates at a very crucial Worlds (the one before the Olympics.) However, I'm very down on their chances at this point.

Max is not the national champion. Adam is. Not that I blame you, people must be so outraged, they forgot Adam exists.

ice coverage · Feb 19, 2016

StitchMonkey said:
I have to say that I think the doom and gloom about USA not keeping 3 spots is a little premature and not really fair to Grant. Honestly I am actually more optimistic. Grant sits in 6th, he set a personal best and at least got the rotation on his quad. Before everyone thought it was up to Adam and Max, but I think Grant has potential to contribute as well. Any combination of the three of them could end up in 6th and 7th at worlds.

Yes i know we may not keep them. But how knows what will happen. For now I say good for Grant.

I hope I did not sound disrespectful to Grant.
"Good for Grant" has been my feeling as well -- about his many accomplishments this season.

I have no doubt that Grant will do everything he can to place well at Worlds, both for the team's sake and for his own sake.
And I agree that it is not unthinkable that he could outplace Adam and/or Max.

But I would venture to suggest that the responsibility for three spots will weigh more heavily on Adam and Max -- which is what I was referring to in my previous post.
Adam is the reigning national champ, and Max is a former national champ. Adam will be competing at Worlds for the fourth time, and Max for the third. They each have contributed to three spots in the past.

Meanwhile, Grant will be at Worlds for the first time (as a very welcome alternate for the slot that opened up b/c of Nathan's injury).
I think it is fair to say that the expectations/pressure for Grant will not be as high as for Adam and Max, and I hope that being in not quite as hot a seat (so to speak) will help Grant skate better than ever.
And of course, it will be very much appreciated if Grant contributes to three spots for 2017.

StitchMonkey · Feb 19, 2016

Skater Boy said:
I wonder if Caroline will be there to cheer Grant on?

Pretty sure she is with him currently and I would assume she will be there in Boston.

icekiwi · Feb 19, 2016

Agree with the top 3 placings:

Boyang = Brought 'sexy' to his tango!! He has definitely improved his overall presentation/interpretaion, etc. compared to last year.

Shoma = Skating like a 'Rock Star'. He and Boyang seemed to have thrown their 'boyhood charm' out the window and put on 'sexy'.

Han Yan = So good to see him skate clean. Han is a very capable jumper. Would like to see him skate to a different genre of music next year. (Hope Han medals)

.....Patrick = Please don't make excuses about the ice, the ice dancers and pairs all use the same ice, you know.

robinhood · Feb 19, 2016

Sorry, if it's already been asked....Why was Yan's spin invalidated?

Skater Boy · Feb 19, 2016

andyjo24 said:
I agree that the GOE for his jumps are way too high. His jumping technique is far, far from the best.

He's basically the "male Satoko Miyahara."

my thoughts exactly Miyahara 2.0 lol

andyjo24 · Feb 19, 2016

Skater Boy said:
my thoughts exactly Miyahara 2.0 lol

Lol. Not even 2.0. Just the male version.

2016 Four Continents Mens SP

zschultz1986

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