Michael Weiss | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Michael Weiss

BronzeisGolden

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I also think it is completely unfair to take anything away from a skater's accomplishment just because one or more other eligible competitors weren't part of the competition. Todd Eldredge's brilliant showing in Vancouver was very surprising considering how he struggled through the 2000-2001 season. Certainly, he did medal at GP events....but with relatively weak performances. Mike earned his World medals in 1999 and 2000. Who can say that Todd would have been able to compete at that point and time? The "What if" game is wonderfully entertaining, but facts are facts. Mike won two consecutive World medals in 1999-2000 and Todd did not. I also find it completely ludicrous that the USFSA would hold Mike up over more deserving skaters. They didn't do it in 2001, 2002 or 2004. I mean, come on, he skated a pretty clean long program this year and his marks weren't that spectacular. He earned his place on the 2004 World Team....and the 2002 Olympic Team, and on and on, etc.
 

euterpe

Medalist
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
Eldredge won two consecutive US National Championships in 1997 and 1998 and two World silver medals, competing against Weiss. Weiss won two National Championship in 1999 and 2000, and two World bronze medals, competing against Goebel. Goebel won the US National Championship in 2001 and Eldredge won silver (Weiss finished 4th); Eldredge won a much-deserved bronze medal at 2001 Worlds [the New York Times commented that for once the judges rewarded fine skating, and not just big jumps] and Goebel finished 4th.

It's too bad that Goebel commented that HE should have won the 2002 US Championship. As I recall, Goebel and Eldredge had tied for first in the SP, but Eldredge won the FS because Goebel fell on his second quad--I guess Timmy forgot about that. The Goebel who skated in 2002 had big jumps, all right, but he was not a pretty figure on the ice, with his hunched shoulders and stiff body. He was very ungracious after losing his title to Todd. Weiss was very, very lucky to finish 3rd after being in 5th place after the SP. Many felt that Matt Savoie had outskated Mike but Mike was given the Olympic spot because of his previous World medals.
 
Last edited:

Linny

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Going Away

I also wish the MW would just go away. As an eligible, I'm sick to death of hearing about quads that he never lands.

I'm not hoping for him to join the pro ranks, either. His exhibition programs are less than entertaining at least to my eyes and ears. I've always actually found the Angel is a Centerfold song to be rather juvinile and am not surprised that MW decided that would be a good exhibition.

About the only program he ever did that excited me was his SP at World's in Washington DC to screaming guitar music... and the speed with which he slammed into that big fall on the lutz. I'd already had enough trouble forgiving him for going to Cup of Russia too soon after an injury and making a laughing stock outta himself. Then, to falter so mightily in front of the home town crowd...

His father built a gym and parlayed his athletic success into a good career. Couldn't Mikey just buy or build an ice rink and do the same?

Linny
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
And what has happened to Ilia Kulic? A skater who vastly improved when he got into Kurt's show. He's not there anymore?

Kurt's show? When was he in "Gotta Skate" ? Stars on Ice has always and will forever be Scott's show. ;)

as for them being business men... I don't think so, I think they're becoming producer/directors.... but they still rely heavily on their "agents" to do the other stuff... with the help of Disson Skating they're trying to bring pro skating back...


one big difference in pro skating is that JUMPS are not nessicerily what makes the program great... it's all about selling the routine...

Give me Kurt's Nyah over Timothy's quads any day... and I'm a fan of both.
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
In his best years at Worlds Weiss has finished 2nd in the qualis and 3rd in the SP and LP. He has never won a competition phase at Worlds. He's had to rely upon others' mistakes to medal, both at Worlds and Grand Prix; while technically "in control of his own destiny," he's never been able to take it. He's never had a program on paper that could match Plushenko's technical content -- landed routinely in competition over the last five seasons -- to say nothing of Goebel's, the reigning Olympic bronze medallist's. While he might match Honda on paper, Honda actually has landed quads that aren't two-footed. Both of these skaters were on the 2002 podium.

I would say that in this light it was arrogant of Weiss to state publically that he was renting a hummer limo to celebrate his victory at 2003 Worlds.
 

dr.frog

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
hockeyfan228 said:
While he might match Honda on paper, Honda actually has landed quads that aren't two-footed.

Well, so has Weiss. He landed one in the short program at 2003 Worlds, for instance, and at a few other competitions in the past. It's not at all consistent, but he *has* done it.
 

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
To use a very old saying......"If you don't like what you see, don't watch!" Simple as that..........that's what the scan button on the t.v. (or vcr) controls are for. I for one enjoy Michael's skating. If I think a skater, male or female, is getting too full of themself, I hit the mute button. Don't you love technology? :) 42
 

RIskatingfan

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
hockeyfan228 said:
In his best years at Worlds Weiss has finished 2nd in the qualis and 3rd in the SP and LP.
And those are darn good results! How many other skaters wouldn't like to have those oh so shameful results in their competitive record ;) Just because he isn't Scott Hamilton or Brian Boitano doesn't mean he shouldn't be respected as well as his accomplishments.

Since everybody's relying on "what if's", I'm going to do the same. If Weiss didn't happen to be from the Yagudin-Plushenko era, I would bet he would be a World Champion by now.
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
RIskatingfan said:
And those are darn good results! How many other skaters wouldn't like to have those oh so shameful results in their competitive record ;) Just because he isn't Scott Hamilton or Brian Boitano doesn't mean he shouldn't be respected as well as his accomplishments.

Since everybody's relying on "what if's", I'm going to do the same. If Weiss didn't happen to be from the Yagudin-Plushenko era, I would bet he would be a World Champion by now.
I didn't argue that these were shameful results. As Joesitz asked for examples of his arrogance, I argued that it was arrogant to publicize hiring a victory wagon for a World Championships in which he was not a favorite, and didn't even have the programs on paper to be competitive with Plushenko, Goebel, and Honda.
 

skatingfan5

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Mike Weiss at Worlds

hockeyfan228 said:
I didn't argue that these were shameful results. As Joesitz asked for examples of his arrogance, I argued that it was arrogant to publicize hiring a victory wagon for a World Championships in which he was not a favorite, and didn't even have the programs on paper to be competitive with Plushenko, Goebel, and Honda.
Actually, in the 2003 Worlds SP I thought that Mike was skating at a level to actually beat Plushenko (nevermind Tim) -- I was like "holy cow! what are the judges going to do with THAT performance?!" And then, of course, he fell on his triple lutz, so it was all moot. But he actually DID have the goods, had he been able to deliver. Even 2000 Worlds was really a missed opportunity. Quad or not, if he had skated in Nice like he did in Cleveland, he might have actually won the thing. Not likely, but given the messy performances of Yagudin and Plushenko's frantic search for the missing quad, Mike actually stood a chance of winning then. His "Carmen" free program was really a good one.

Bravado and an unsuccessful attempt to psyche himself up to win in his hometown is what I would use to describe his "limo rental remarks" -- not arrogance.
 

dr.frog

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
skatingfan5 said:
Actually, in the 2003 Worlds SP I thought that Mike was skating at a level to actually beat Plushenko (nevermind Tim) -- I was like "holy cow! what are the judges going to do with THAT performance?!" And then, of course, he fell on his triple lutz, so it was all moot.

Yup, I was there and that was what I thought too -- if Weiss hadn't missed that lutz, he would have been in first place in the short, because up to that point he had been having a great skate, probably the best I had ever seen him do. Plus Plushenko had a wonky landing on his axel, Goebel's presentation and in-between skating is nowhere near the quality of Weiss's, and Honda had a wonky landing on his quad and only tacked on a double toe instead of a triple, so first place was really well within his reach.

BTW, it's also untrue that Weiss has never won a competition phase at Worlds. He won his qualifying round in DC.
 

STL_Blues_fan

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
hockeyfan228 said:
.

I would say that in this light it was arrogant of Weiss to state publically that he was renting a hummer limo to celebrate his victory at 2003 Worlds.


How about making an announcement prior to Nationals (2003) that he bought tickets for his entire "clan" to cheer him on in DC for upcoming Worlds? Wouldn't that be classified as arrogance? Don't you need to qualify first? If he wouldn't not be the last man standing (out of the top 4) he had a strong chance of missing the Worlds all together.
 

PrincessLeppard

~ Evgeni's Sex Bomb ~
Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
The day I stopped being even remotely a fan of Mikey was after the short program at US Nationals 2003, when he made the comment about Weir and Savoie skating like "junior" skaters. Mikey deserved his fourth place finish, and he is not some 17 year old who got a microphone stuck in his face, he is a mature adult who should've known when to keep his mouth shut. I love that one of the "junior" skaters trounced on him this year at Nationals.

Having said, he can keep skating as long as he wants.

Laura :)
 

ATW27

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
PrincessLeppard said:
The day I stopped being even remotely a fan of Mikey was after the short program at US Nationals 2003, when he made the comment about Weir and Savoie skating like "junior" skaters.

But that's not exactly what he said.... this is what he had to say about it in the interview (http://www.goldenskate.com/articles/2003/051604.shtml) posted on the main GoldenSkate website a few months ago:

"Latara: Why did you say such bad things about Johnny Weir and Matt Savoie's skating at last year's nationals?

Mike: I have a lot of respect for my competitors. I know the hard work that is put in to compete at this level and I would not intentionally put down another skaters hard work. Sometimes the press will interpret things differently than intended, and that is part of our sport.

I am not sure what was written, but what I said when asked how Johnny and Matt's programs would compare to others technically at the World Championships, I replied that artistically they are as good as anyone at Worlds. They are both strong spinners and have good footwork. But technically, at Junior Worlds you can win with a triple axel. Not at Worlds. You need a quad in the short program to compete for a medal.

Somehow that was construed as me saying their skating was "Junior-ish" and that I felt I should have been ahead of them. I did not feel that way at all. They skated better than me that night.

When asked about my marks, I said I felt a 4.9 was harsh for a program with a quad toeloop combination, but I didn't feel my placement was unjust. Just the mark.

I have learned over the years that the members of the media are still actual people that have emotions and that those emotions are attached to what they write. So as a skater, my emotions are likewise attached to how I perform. These feelings make it difficult to keep an unbiased opinion. So it comes as no surprise to me that things are often lost in the translation."

Andy W.
 
Last edited:

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Joesitz said:
And what has happened to Ilia Kulic? A skater who vastly improved when he got into Kurt's show. He's not there anymore?
Joe

Joe, in fall Ilia Kulik will appear in Kristi Yamaguchi show (Salute To American Music). Yes, I remember that you liked his skating very much in previous season´s Bacharach show.

With the exception of the Kristi show and another show in August in Japan, Ilia´s plans are not known to his fans, yet. Unfortunately he is not appearing in Ice Wars (he was AWESOME past season), but we can hope that there would be Skater´s Championships (World Pro) as a pro event and that Ilia will participate.

hockeyfan228 said:
I didn't argue that these were shameful results. As Joesitz asked for examples of his arrogance, I argued that it was arrogant to publicize hiring a victory wagon for a World Championships in which he was not a favorite, and didn't even have the programs on paper to be competitive with Plushenko, Goebel, and Honda.

I did not take that as a sign for some arrogance at all. Weiss simply did that just because he tried to force himself to skate better in this way. It was like voluntarily putting oneself into a tight corner to get out of himself more at the competition. Unfortunately this try-out did not succeed better, but at last he tried.

Marjaana

Ilia Kulik photos & photolinks
http://koti.welho.com/mjylha2/index.html
Update June 14, 2004: http://koti.welho.com/mjylha2/index07i.html
 
Last edited:

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I have learned over the years that the members of the media are still actual people that have emotions and that those emotions are attached to what they write. So as a skater, my emotions are likewise attached to how I perform. These feelings make it difficult to keep an unbiased opinion. So it comes as no surprise to me that things are often lost in the translation."

Thank you, ATW, for putting at least this incident into perspective.......42
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
For some reason, some fans hold a lot of contempt for Michael for what is perceived arrogance; others and myself included just consider his performances and not his personality. I agree sometimes a performer (not necessarily a skater) who is perceived as having a personality defect by some, can get in the way of his popularity. For example, some fans hate Brittany Speres(SP?) others love her. But how well does she actually perform may well be based on the personal perceptions of others while she is off stage. :confused:

I don't hate Michael Weiss as others appear to based on his personality. Even given the fact that he is a family man doesn't influence me as to his skating ability. As a skater, imo, Weiss is fine but not among my top favorites. As so many have said, he needs to go in a different direction in his choreography. I agree!!

My list of favorite male skaters are short: Lambiel for the sheer joy he shows in skating and Klimkin who for me has the most original style in the whole of figure skating including the ladies. Neither have quads nor do I care.

The two top skaters for me and this is based on performance not personality: one does nothing but mug the audience and judges; the other is so wooden in his performance. Both have the almighty quad. That's good for them, because imo, they would be nothing without them.

But, by all means for those who must hate Michael, continue to do so. It's your prerogative. I'll just continue to ruminate on his skating.

BTW, can you imagine a Flamenco Dancer without arrogance? Maybe those Carmen skaters can show us some arrogance instead of mugging and batting the eyelashes. :laugh:

Joe
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Joe, I would like to point out that Lambiel has a quad, and that was successful in Worlds 2004 freeskate (I´m not sure but I think that he also jumped it in combination). Otherwise I share your opinion about Lambiel totally.

BTW, in a previous message I answered your comment about Ilia Kulik, and would like to add the following: In the new August BOI magazine there was Steve Disson (the organizer of e.g. Burt Bacharach Tribute On Ice) article and he mentions as his opinion that Ilia Kulik´s A House Is Not A Home, with James Ingram, from that event was one of the highlights of the year. He did not mention any other highlights by name.

Marjaana

Ilia Kulik photos & photolinks
http://koti.welho.com/mjylha2/index.html
Update June 14, 2004: http://koti.welho.com/mjylha2/index07i.html
 
Last edited:

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Klimkin, also, may have been inconsistent with his quads lately, but he does have the distinction of having been the first skater to land two different quads (salchow and toe loop) in the same program. (He did it at 1999 Nebelhorn a few weeks before Tim Goebel first landed three quads -- two salchows and a toe loop -- at Skate America that year.)

Back in juniors ca. 1998 and 99, Klimkin had a quad sal before he had a triple axel.
 
Top