Kovtun leaves Buyanova, goes to Goncharenko

Kovtun is so spoilt by the Russian Skating Federation that his habitually supercilious behavior is not at all surprising to me. His sniffing at Mishin's professional abilities is the very reason he left his group. Some Russian skaters should learn how to mend their ways before breaking with their former coaches.

Sweet Dream said:

Kovtun is so spoilt by the Russian Skating Federation that his habitually supercilious behavior is not at all surprising to me. His sniffing at Mishin's professional abilities is the very reason he left his group. Some Russian skaters should learn how to mend their ways before breaking with their former coaches.

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He was just on a trial for a short period, one of many over the years.

Would Kovtun ever try pairs? I understand his main strength is his ability to land quads but he just seems to be a bit of a headcase at this point, maybe skating with someone else would help him stay more focused? I know he's a thinner guy but he's also pretty tall (around 6 feet I think) so he could probably find a suitable girl to skate with. I don't know, I just get the feeling he isn't that into the performance side of skating, and if he tried pairs, he could maybe get away with that more because his main job would be to show off the girl . Plus, there's nothing like a fierce pair girl to scare you into working hard

silverlake22 said:

Would Kovtun ever try pairs? I understand his main strength is his ability to land quads but he just seems to be a bit of a headcase at this point, maybe skating with someone else would help him stay more focused? I know he's a thinner guy but he's also pretty tall (around 6 feet I think) so he could probably find a suitable girl to skate with. I don't know, I just get the feeling he isn't that into the performance side of skating, and if he tried pairs, he could maybe get away with that more because his main job would be to show off the girl . Plus, there's nothing like a fierce pair girl to scare you into working hard

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Interesting suggestion! Worth a try IMO, should his new tutelage not bring the desired results.

silverlake22 said:

Would Kovtun ever try pairs? I understand his main strength is his ability to land quads but he just seems to be a bit of a headcase at this point, maybe skating with someone else would help him stay more focused? I know he's a thinner guy but he's also pretty tall (around 6 feet I think) so he could probably find a suitable girl to skate with. I don't know, I just get the feeling he isn't that into the performance side of skating, and if he tried pairs, he could maybe get away with that more because his main job would be to show off the girl . Plus, there's nothing like a fierce pair girl to scare you into working hard

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He is too proud to let a girl steal the attention of the audience, you know.

For no reason i believe that CSKA works in this way:

Buyanova's group -> team A (with more funds than anyone else, better choreographers, the group that makes CSKA proud)
Goncharenko's group -> team B
Sokolovskaya's group -> team C (if you fail even with Goncharenko like Alexander Samarin)

It's funny because i feel Inna Goncharenko is a better coach than Elena Vodorezova, maybe this change could work for him.

So now Adian Pitkeev is the fav male skater of Tatiana Tarasova, Kovtun has failed to handle the pressure and no more inflated scores for him at RN.

silverlake22 said:

Would Kovtun ever try pairs? I understand his main strength is his ability to land quads but he just seems to be a bit of a headcase at this point, maybe skating with someone else would help him stay more focused? I know he's a thinner guy but he's also pretty tall (around 6 feet I think) so he could probably find a suitable girl to skate with. I don't know, I just get the feeling he isn't that into the performance side of skating, and if he tried pairs, he could maybe get away with that more because his main job would be to show off the girl . Plus, there's nothing like a fierce pair girl to scare you into working hard

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Is he really that tall? His ISU biography page lists his height as 178 cm, which is 5 feet 10 I think. I don't know how accurate/up-to-date is the information on the ISU page, though. It's not necessarily too short for pairs, I'm sure. But he does seem more on the slender side.

silverlake22 said:

I know he's a thinner guy but he's also pretty tall (around 6 feet I think)

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The heck?! Kovtun is NOT six feet.

Tolstoj said:

For no reason i believe that CSKA works in this way:

Buyanova's group -> team A (with more funds than anyone else, better choreographers, the group that makes CSKA proud)
Goncharenko's group -> team B
Sokolovskaya's group -> team C (if you fail even with Goncharenko like Alexander Samarin)

It's funny because i feel Inna Goncharenko is a better coach than Elena Vodorezova, maybe this change could work for him.

So now Adian Pitkeev is the fav male skater of Tatiana Tarasova, Kovtun has failed to handle the pressure and no more inflated scores for him at RN.

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I get the same feeling about this. The aforementioned insider Gus wrote that after Kovtun switched to Goncharenko all the specialists who had worked with him before have refuzed to work with him, and, of course, as the head coach Buyanova has the best specialists working with her. As I understood, she lets them work with the other TSKA coaches whom she considers not a threat to herself personally, but not with Goncharenko, whom she looks upon as a rival. No wonder Kovtun wanted to have some choreography done before the switch. After all, it's the same club, and there's no legitimate reason why he shouldn't be able to work with the same specialists. Gus also wrote repeatedly that Buyanova didn't let Goncharenko's students have enough ice time, and the Fed had to let Goncharenko and Radionova go train at Novogorsk before championships - and that Buyanova has tried many times to make Radionova switch to her (just as she'd taken Sotnikova from Goncharenko years ago). TSKA gets double funding, from the Rus Skating Fed and from the army, and so I assume can they can attract the best specialists of all kinds and also give their skaters more time with said specialists. I think that's why Pitkeev switched: with his back problem and the necessity of doing quads, he needs all the specialists' attention he can get, poor guy. I really feel very sorry for him, that at his age he already finds himself in such a precarious situation, health-wise. Gus also wrote about a change in the balance of power in TSKA following Kovtun's switch and Goncharenko's subsequent long talk with the Fed. I hope that this means that Goncharenko's students will get adequate ice time now.

Reg. Kovtun's switching to pairs, I think he should try some more in singles. There are lots of good pairs in Russia: Volosozhar/Trankov, Kavaguchi/Smirnov, Stolbova/Klimov, Tarasova/Morozov, Astakhova/Rogonov, Bazarova/Deputat, Zabiako/Enbert, and the top juniors switching to seniors. Pairs have to learn quad twists and/or throws these days to succeed, and Kovtun doesn't know how to do any pair elements at all. Maybe the coach switch and the 18th place at the last Worlds will give him the impetus he needs to improve.

silverlake22 said:

Would Kovtun ever try pairs? I understand his main strength is his ability to land quads but he just seems to be a bit of a headcase at this point, maybe skating with someone else would help him stay more focused? I know he's a thinner guy but he's also pretty tall (around 6 feet I think) so he could probably find a suitable girl to skate with. I don't know, I just get the feeling he isn't that into the performance side of skating, and if he tried pairs, he could maybe get away with that more because his main job would be to show off the girl . Plus, there's nothing like a fierce pair girl to scare you into working hard

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or to drop the girl

Spiral said:

and that Buyanova has tried many times to make Radionova switch to her (just as she'd taken Sotnikova from Goncharenko years ago). TSKA gets double funding, from the Rus Skating Fed and from the army, and so I assume can they can attract the best specialists of all kinds and also give their skaters more time with said specialists. I think that's why Pitkeev switched: with his back problem and the necessity of doing quads, he needs all the specialists' attention he can get, poor guy. I really feel very sorry for him, that at his age he already finds himself in such a precarious situation, health-wise. Gus also wrote about a change in the balance of power in TSKA following Kovtun's switch and Goncharenko's subsequent long talk with the Fed. I hope that this means that Goncharenko's students will get adequate ice time now.

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That's interesting. I did not realize Sotnikova also used to train with Goncharenko. Well, I hope now that she has Radionova, Voronov, and Kovtun that she gets more equal ice time and access to specialists. It doesn't seem quite fair otherwise.

honghe said:

Is he really that tall? His ISU biography page lists his height as 178 cm, which is 5 feet 10 I think. I don't know how accurate/up-to-date is the information on the ISU page, though. It's not necessarily too short for pairs, I'm sure. But he does seem more on the slender side.

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http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...1e4-95d9-cf5ba0d30712/54cd21e5db355.image.jpg He looks more than 2 cm than Voronov to me. I don't think he's THAT tall, well, for a singles skater he is pretty tall, but in compared to the general public not so much. 178 cm could be outdated though, not sure, I would guess he's around 180-182 cm just based on his proportions and how much taller he is than most of his competitors. If he did pairs he'd need a smaller girl for sure, but not someone super tiny. I feel like Russian pairs are always breaking up these days, I know the field is deep, but he would have an advantage in the SBS jumps and spins department.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if Kovtun has no interest in chucking girls across the ice and lifting them over his head, it just something that crossed my mind and the type of thing I could see TAT going for

silverlake22 said:

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...1e4-95d9-cf5ba0d30712/54cd21e5db355.image.jpg He looks more than 2 cm than Voronov to me. I don't think he's THAT tall, well, for a singles skater he is pretty tall, but in compared to the general public not so much. 178 cm could be outdated though, not sure, I would guess he's around 180-182 cm just based on his proportions and how much taller he is than most of his competitors. If he did pairs he'd need a smaller girl for sure, but not someone super tiny. I feel like Russian pairs are always breaking up these days, I know the field is deep, but he would have an advantage in the SBS jumps and spins department.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if Kovtun has no interest in chucking girls across the ice and lifting them over his head, it just something that crossed my mind and the type of thing I could see TAT going for :lol:

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Yes, he does seem more than 2cm taller than Voronov in that picture. I guess he could try pairs if there is a girl that suits him looking for a new partner.
On the other hand, I hope they're still giving him the necessary chance to improve at singles. People praise Kolyada a lot after Worlds, and rightfully so. I think Kovtun is actually a couple of months younger than Kolyada, so even though Kovtun has been disappointing recently, it's not like he's a lost cause already.

honghe said:

Yes, he does seem more than 2cm taller than Voronov in that picture. I guess he could try pairs if there is a girl that suits him looking for a new partner.
On the other hand, I hope they're still giving him the necessary chance to improve at singles. People praise Kolyada a lot after Worlds, and rightfully so. I think Kovtun is actually a couple of months younger than Kolyada, so even though Kovtun has been disappointing recently, it's not like he's a lost cause already.

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Yes Kovtun only 4 months younger, he will be 21 in June and Kolyada turned 21 in February.
I don't think he is a lost cause but he needs to prove at this stage that he can be consistent internationally. I think that Kolyada success in Boston was a complete shock to him, that's why he went to pieces in the LP.

Tutto said:

Yes Kovtun only 4 months younger, he will be 21 in June and Kolyada turned 21 in February.
I don't think he is a lost cause but he needs to prove at this stage that he can be consistent internationally. I think that Kolyada success in Boston was a complete shock to him, that's why he went to pieces in the LP.

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I thought Kolyada was not that much behind him at Russian Nationals and Europeans? Either way even if he's shocked, I didn't expect him to be mentally that fragile... It's just sad to see that FS performance...

Tutto said:

Yes Kovtun only 4 months younger, he will be 21 in June and Kolyada turned 21 in February.
I don't think he is a lost cause but he needs to prove at this stage that he can be consistent internationally. I think that Kolyada success in Boston was a complete shock to him, that's why he went to pieces in the LP.

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It was hardly Kolyada's fault that Kovtun skated such a bad SP (unless he looked up the scores before his skate which you are not supposed to do and Kovtun especially should never do). If Kovtun had done his best and Kolyada had still overtaken him, then there would be a reason to be shocked.

Tutto said:

Yes Kovtun only 4 months younger, he will be 21 in June and Kolyada turned 21 in February.
I don't think he is a lost cause but he needs to prove at this stage that he can be consistent internationally. I think that Kolyada success in Boston was a complete shock to him, that's why he went to pieces in the LP.

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I think Kolyada has more going for him at this point but Kovtun is still very young and has the ability to be competitive at the top if he can stay healthy and figure out a training situation that will work for him. I know Tat complains that he doesn't always work as hard as he should, but even so, Kovtun still manages to have strong performances at some events, so I think that speaks to a certain level of talent and work ethic even is Tat is complaining. Kovtun has never been super consistent, but this was the first season where I felt like he was more cold than hot, the couple seasons before this one were pretty successful for him. I think he could benefit from cleaning up his jump technique a bit. It's clear that the quads aren't that consistent right now and the 3a even less so, and without those he won't be getting anywhere fast. I also think at this point it might not be a bad idea to scale back and go for 1 quad in the SP and 2 in the FS. He can add in the extra quads later if his consistency improves. I hope we see another quad (4s, 4lo?) from Kolyada next season.

I still have a weak spot for Max Kovtun and I don't believe he's a lost cause. I can't help but thinking that his problems are mainly to do with regular growing up problems, just that it is a lot harder for a top athlete to find himself and his place in the world off the ice. His instagram pictures of his gangsta rapper mates, big BMW and Gucci shoes... he's still very young, and maybe emotionally even younger than 20. I remember the boys at Uni in my day, some where already men, some were still like teenagers. He needs to sort a few things out and it seemed to me that Buyanova is not the type of 'substitute parent' young skaters sometimes need.
Once he has a bit matured in himself, he can fully concentrate on skating again and I have no doubt, he is able to give us remarkable performances. Come on lad, you can do it!

Spiral said:

I get the same feeling about this. The aforementioned insider Gus wrote that after Kovtun switched to Goncharenko all the specialists who had worked with him before have refuzed to work with him, and, of course, as the head coach Buyanova has the best specialists working with her. As I understood, she lets them work with the other TSKA coaches whom she considers not a threat to herself personally, but not with Goncharenko, whom she looks upon as a rival. No wonder Kovtun wanted to have some choreography done before the switch. After all, it's the same club, and there's no legitimate reason why he shouldn't be able to work with the same specialists. Gus also wrote repeatedly that Buyanova didn't let Goncharenko's students have enough ice time, and the Fed had to let Goncharenko and Radionova go train at Novogorsk before championships - and that Buyanova has tried many times to make Radionova switch to her (just as she'd taken Sotnikova from Goncharenko years ago). TSKA gets double funding, from the Rus Skating Fed and from the army, and so I assume can they can attract the best specialists of all kinds and also give their skaters more time with said specialists. I think that's why Pitkeev switched: with his back problem and the necessity of doing quads, he needs all the specialists' attention he can get, poor guy. I really feel very sorry for him, that at his age he already finds himself in such a precarious situation, health-wise. Gus also wrote about a change in the balance of power in TSKA following Kovtun's switch and Goncharenko's subsequent long talk with the Fed. I hope that this means that Goncharenko's students will get adequate ice time now.

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That doesn't paint a very pleasant picture of Buyanova, in my opinion. I haven't heard of other coaches aggressively trying to poach skaters or withholding resources from their perceived rivals. By the way, how does this Gus person know so much and get away with sharing all that gossip? You would think some people might have a problem with him sharing so much "insider" info.

As to Kovtun trying pairs, I don't see it happening because his quads are really his ace in the hole (when he lands them). I also don't think that he loves skating so much that he would want to try another discipline if singles doesn't work out. Maybe he could focus on his rap career. But I do think he has the ability to grow up and buckle down with skating, if he changes his attitude now. He has a lot to prove & the favors will not come so easily now.

LadyB said:

I still have a weak spot for Max Kovtun and I don't believe he's a lost cause. I can't help but thinking that his problems are mainly to do with regular growing up problems, just that it is a lot harder for a top athlete to find himself and his place in the world off the ice. His instagram pictures of his gangsta rapper mates, big BMW and Gucci shoes... he's still very young, and maybe emotionally even younger than 20. I remember the boys at Uni in my day, some where already men, some were still like teenagers. He needs to sort a few things out and it seemed to me that Buyanova is not the type of 'substitute parent' young skaters sometimes need.
Once he has a bit matured in himself, he can fully concentrate on skating again and I have no doubt, he is able to give us remarkable performances. Come on lad, you can do it!

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I think his instagram pictures aren't really surprising for a kid at his age... And he seems to have a puppy? Being able to take care of a puppy is already more responsible than a lot of today's university students
But I agree with what you said. Some skaters do need "substitute parents." Coaches have different approaches and personalities, too, and not all of them are suitable to play a more parent-like role.