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You remind me of a man who said that he knew a black man once who was dishonest. He then went on to conclude that all black men were dishonest!!!
You really have an axe to grind!!
How would Russia's absence affect the games
- Thread starter gmyers
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You remind me of a man who said that he knew a black man once who was dishonest. He then went on to conclude that all black men were dishonest!!!
You really have an axe to grind!!
I've been read about Russia's suspensions in other sports forums. Many posters out there remembered doping cases from the past and, geez, I must say that I almost lost any interest in track and field - it seems to be the most "dirty" modality by a mile. It's not all about East Germany or URSS in the 70's and 80's. I didn't knew Carl Lewis admitted doping https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/apr/24/athletics.duncanmackay, I'm old enough to remember Ben Johnson's case and how Florence Griffith Joyner death in the late 90's raised suspicion over her records: she improved her results dramatically in a short period of time and retired suddenly, one year before doping tests become routine. More recently we have Marion Jones's case. Swimming seems to follow similar path...
You are wrong. IAAF didn't make false test results and didn't make Russia not cooperate with WADA.
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IAAF President, Lawyor, and head Doping agent extorted money from athletes and coaches during this whole event. I'd be surprised if they only did so with Russians. That is more offensive to me than athletes taking PED's. YMMV.
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Any time, I mean *any* time, someone tries to explain away doping tests by "everyone is doing it", "it's not fair", "oh, waaaah nobody's ever liked us", I am sorry, I just tune right out.
Why is everybody always picking on me?
Justin Gatlin is an embarassment and should not be competing, but he got caught, served his time, and here he is. That's doesn't excuse systemic state sponsored doping elsewhere. YMMV.
Why is everybody always picking on me?
Justin Gatlin is an embarassment and should not be competing, but he got caught, served his time, and here he is. That's doesn't excuse systemic state sponsored doping elsewhere. YMMV.
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I think there is a drastic difference in "explaining away failed doping tests" and wanting to see fair and equal punishment given. IAAF is not banned from the Olympics and worse yet they are the ones investigating crimes that they were complicit in to the point of actually profiting from it.
Let me put it this way. If Rodchenkov's second in command took over as the head anti doping agent in Russia would you feel confident that he knew nothing of the Sochi cheating that is now being claimed and more importantly wasn't involved himself. Let alone trustworthy to oversee and effectively prevent anti doping? I doubt most would. The thing is...that's what IAAF did. Right? Coe is now the president of IAAF after being Vice President of the man, Diack, who was directly involved with extorting money from coaches and athletes.
There is a huge difference in being fair and taking a hard stance. The system is what's broke and the fact that the organization most responsible for it isn't itself banned is what someone like me considers an excercise in futility. Look away folks....nothing to see here. These aren't even the droids you are looking for. Until the IAAF is cleaned out and dealt with the same as any athlete who cheats then how can anyone believe in it?
Ban Russian track and feild for cheating...fine. But to allow the IAAF to simply reshuffle the deck, investigate crimes they themselves partook in, and be allowed to make final decisions on the matter only exposes the deep seeded corruption of the ones who govern track and field events. Either ban everyone who cheated which seems most sensible or ban all of the federations involved but do it consistently! And I'm sorry but if people from WADA themselves weren't involved or at least in the know....than all I can say is wow.
https://www.rt.com/sport/347300-sebastian-coe-corruption-scandal/
From the guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...s-scandal-iaaf-bbc-panorama-liliya-shobukhova
Let me put it this way. If Rodchenkov's second in command took over as the head anti doping agent in Russia would you feel confident that he knew nothing of the Sochi cheating that is now being claimed and more importantly wasn't involved himself. Let alone trustworthy to oversee and effectively prevent anti doping? I doubt most would. The thing is...that's what IAAF did. Right? Coe is now the president of IAAF after being Vice President of the man, Diack, who was directly involved with extorting money from coaches and athletes.
There is a huge difference in being fair and taking a hard stance. The system is what's broke and the fact that the organization most responsible for it isn't itself banned is what someone like me considers an excercise in futility. Look away folks....nothing to see here. These aren't even the droids you are looking for. Until the IAAF is cleaned out and dealt with the same as any athlete who cheats then how can anyone believe in it?
Ban Russian track and feild for cheating...fine. But to allow the IAAF to simply reshuffle the deck, investigate crimes they themselves partook in, and be allowed to make final decisions on the matter only exposes the deep seeded corruption of the ones who govern track and field events. Either ban everyone who cheated which seems most sensible or ban all of the federations involved but do it consistently! And I'm sorry but if people from WADA themselves weren't involved or at least in the know....than all I can say is wow.
https://www.rt.com/sport/347300-sebastian-coe-corruption-scandal/
From the guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...s-scandal-iaaf-bbc-panorama-liliya-shobukhova
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^^^
Sam, we actually agree on an enormous amount. I have no faith or trust in Sebastian Coe, who was Diack's right-hand man while Diack scammed his merry way through the IAAF. I think Diack and his minions should do hard time. From what I read (and I have faith in other newspapers, but that's OK), the only reason any action was even taken here was outcry from the athletes themselves; if he athletes hadn't kicked and screamed why should we have to compete against cheaters, all these bigwigs would still be lining each other's pockets.
From what I understand, the IAAF, however reluctantly, is also forcing the IOC's hand. Evidently the head of the IOC is so tight with the Russian Fed (and very high up Russian politicos), he didn't want to take action, but again, the public outcry forced action. Don't have time to find the links now, but that is what I have read.
But I do not agree that Justin Gatlin and Marion Jones are evidence of *federation* controlled doping. And I will never buy "everybody's always picking on *me*" (not that you have said that, just in general). A very sad situtation all around.....
Sam, we actually agree on an enormous amount. I have no faith or trust in Sebastian Coe, who was Diack's right-hand man while Diack scammed his merry way through the IAAF. I think Diack and his minions should do hard time. From what I read (and I have faith in other newspapers, but that's OK), the only reason any action was even taken here was outcry from the athletes themselves; if he athletes hadn't kicked and screamed why should we have to compete against cheaters, all these bigwigs would still be lining each other's pockets.
From what I understand, the IAAF, however reluctantly, is also forcing the IOC's hand. Evidently the head of the IOC is so tight with the Russian Fed (and very high up Russian politicos), he didn't want to take action, but again, the public outcry forced action. Don't have time to find the links now, but that is what I have read.
But I do not agree that Justin Gatlin and Marion Jones are evidence of *federation* controlled doping. And I will never buy "everybody's always picking on *me*" (not that you have said that, just in general). A very sad situtation all around.....
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Apparently, some big country officials want to ban all Russian athletes from Rio. Which is ridiculous for me. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/sports/olympics/russia-doping-summer-games-rio.html
EDIT: I've seen that it is already discussed in Le Cafe. I really hope they won't exclude all Russians. It look more of political moves for me. Ban all the dopers, but let the clean one compete, regardles which country they come from. The most suffering will be athletes after all, who were preparing for years to compete at Olympics, not the country. Also, there will be already lower level in some disciplines, I can't imagine discpline like Gymnastics without them as well. It would be like swimming without Americans.
EDIT: I've seen that it is already discussed in Le Cafe. I really hope they won't exclude all Russians. It look more of political moves for me. Ban all the dopers, but let the clean one compete, regardles which country they come from. The most suffering will be athletes after all, who were preparing for years to compete at Olympics, not the country. Also, there will be already lower level in some disciplines, I can't imagine discpline like Gymnastics without them as well. It would be like swimming without Americans.
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So by your logic, all of the Russian skaters should be banned from the South Korea games too as they are also part of Russia, thereby by your logic part of a pro doping environment!
Sports like skating are relatively free from doping, yet by your logic, they too should be punished.
Yet we see discus throwers coming back after doping bans, but that is OK?
Doping is a world wide problem not just limited to Russia, he who is without guilt shall cast the first stone!
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Excatly. I don't see anyone trying to ban Kenia from Rio, just because some of the runners were caught doping. An that's okay, they should ban the cheaters, not every athlete representing the country. I really think it's now more about Russia being BIG in sports. If they were smaller force I doubt they would try to ban the whole country.
Yes because of the fact that Russia is blocking the work of UKAD
It's not about runners being caught Doping it's about Russia blocking the work of anti doping bodies like UKAD and making its own anti doping agency and labs actually pro doping.
You do realise UKAD went to russian regions that have territories off limits to foreigners
you require an approval and russian law have to changed for that
Dagetsan, Chechnya and many Caucasian republics have their own semi constitutions.
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