Analyzing G/G and M/D Lillehammer programs | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Analyzing G/G and M/D Lillehammer programs

Astrid56

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
G&G (Sergei) did have a slight wobble (Sergei singled his Salchow, I think, jump) but their lines were superb, execution of the required elements were excellent, and, overall, the LP artistic presentation was exquisite. Even with the mistake, they were great and, in my opinion, deservedly won the Gold.
 

LeReveur

On the Ice
Joined
May 1, 2010
G&G (Sergei) did have a slight wobble (Sergei singled his Salchow, I think, jump) but their lines were superb, execution of the required elements were excellent, and, overall, the LP artistic presentation was exquisite. Even with the mistake, they were great and, in my opinion, deservedly won the Gold.

I'm not sure why so many people seem to think Katia and Sergei only had one little mistake, but that's simply not what happened. Re-watch the program or read Hersh's article to see that objectively, they did not execute a perfect or near-perfect program.
 

MaxSwagg

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
I'm not sure why so many people seem to think Katia and Sergei only had one little mistake, but that's simply not what happened. Re-watch the program or read Hersh's article to see that objectively, they did not execute a perfect or near-perfect program.

Neither did M/D. To top it all off, M/D had much simpler lifts, less difficult sbs spins, unacceptable chopped-up music selection, and lesser overall skating skills and quality.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
SBS spins were out of synch for G &G in the LP though.... so on top of the singling of a jump and stumble on the other one... that's 3 mistakes.... it's quite a lot
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Artur Dmitriev's mistake on the footwork sequence prevents me from thinking they were the best that night. G/G had such all-time great qualities and that program specifically was their best ever. They made "more" mistakes, but they were small mistakes and they had room to make them. Comparing the planned technical content of the programs, M/D were technically inferior even with the sbs 3Toe, because both of their other jump elements were easier, their twist wasn't quite as good, their lifts weren't quite as good, and their sbs spin was easier.

So for me, M/D needed to skate perfectly and hope for G/G to make multiple mistakes (or one huge mistake) if they wanted to win. In the end M/D didn't skate perfectly and G/G just made little mistakes. If M/D's program had been better then they could have deserved to win. There's much praise here for their program but I don't see it always being to the music. And the costume rip? I'm not against people doing such things but this program ending wasn't the best to me; they kind of slowed down instead of showing total wild abandonment.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
totally agree M/D's sbs spins were easier but here's that.... it was flawlessly executed and IMHO worked very well in the choreography.... in that department, I still give MD the edge... of course, there are other factors... for me, the ripped costumes were hot :) but I can see why others wouldn't like it. but are costumes part of judging now?
 
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Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
but are costumes part of judging now?

They are when you specifically use them in the choreography. In the last part of the program the two of them are skating slowly and he rips open the front of the costume. I get the intent but I don't think it was the most effective thing they could have done.
 

Sabrina

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
The two pairs were so different. I definitely prefer M/D over G/G. Still they were very close. But in the LP I also place M/D over G/G. Both couples were great but neither were completely perfect. I also prefer M/D choreography.
 

MGstyle

Crawling around on the ice after chestnuts
Medalist
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
I am not really in a position to nitpick the technical detail and I was even less so 20+ years ago, but while I loved both performances which were totally different, difficult to compare, I always felt Natasha and Artur had a slight edge over G&G, and was a little miffed about the outcome when the scores came out. I am glad to see I am not the only one who felt that way.
 

dailytg20

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
I personally prefer M/D's program because they managed to make Rach 2 sexy. That ending orgasm pose makes me light a cigarette and I don’t even remember taking up smoking or buying cigarettes.

There seems to be so much conviction and excitement in their skating. And visually I just loved what each of them brought to the table: her quiet, forlorn, vulnerable expression and ridiculous flexibility, his wild romance novel hair and equally ridiculous *** and thighs.

In terms of the result I could see how G/G edged them out on "perfection," but I am probably responsible for at least half of the traffic on M/D's YouTube clips.
 

SarahSynchro

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Country
Canada
This is super difficult... While I could watch G&G all day every day - in my book, they are probably the most aesthetically pleasing pairs team EVER - I feel like M&D were technically superior and threw down better programs.

As an aside, Mishkutionok could totally give Julia Lipnitskaia a run for her money in flexibility:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNDqZuQVcQg&t=3m7s
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
There are times where I think Moskvina's pairs have unneeded choreography that doesn't add to the music. There are moves that hit the exact right note and just simply add to the program's impact, but there are other moves that are just there to be there. I've been re-watching some of my favorite programs of her pairs and I'm starting to notice that I'm not finding I enjoy them as much as I used to. There's a certain lack of cohesion or communicable intent at times with a lot of her choreography. Even my favorite M/D program to Lieberstraum somtimes was over indulgent with flexibility, crowd-pleasing moves though the program was still breath-taking.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
M/D left people gagging after that LP in Lillehammer. There's no reason for the crowd to prefer one Russian team over another aside from what were put in front of them. However, 8/9 judges put G/G first. The result wasn't even close. How is that not questionable judging?

If Mao Asada is doing double and single jumps and messing up her spins, no one will put her over someone like Wakaba even when she has exquisite lines and perfect skating skills. But apparently G/G has "pair unison" that are worth more than triple jumps and triple throws. Nice.
 

MaxSwagg

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
M/D left people gagging after that LP in Lillehammer. There's no reason for the crowd to prefer one Russian team over another aside from what were put in front of them. However, 8/9 judges put G/G first. The result wasn't even close. How is that not questionable judging?

If Mao Asada is doing double and single jumps and messing up her spins, no one will put her over someone like Wakaba even when she has exquisite lines and perfect skating skills. But apparently G/G has "pair unison" that are worth more than triple jumps and triple throws. Nice.

Well it is PAIR skating.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
If Mao Asada is doing double and single jumps and messing up her spins, no one will put her over someone like Wakaba even when she has exquisite lines and perfect skating skills. But apparently G/G has "pair unison" that are worth more than triple jumps and triple throws. Nice.

Under the modern scoring system G/G's planned elements would be worth more points, assuming a 4-jump combination was allowed, and even with their mistakes they still may have have outscored M/D technically:

Gordeeva/Grinkov ............................................ Mishkutenok/Dmitriev

2Axel = 3.3 points .......................................... 3Toe = 4.3 points
2Axel+2Flip sequence = 4.1 points .................... 2Axel+2Toe sequence = 3.7 points
1Axel+1Loop+1Loop+2Sal = 3.4 points ............. 2Flip = 1.8 points

TOTAL = 10.8 points ........................................ TOTAL = 9.8 points

Grinkov singled out on the 2Sal and had a tight landing edge on his 2Flip. M/D were clean on all jump elements but none of them had amazing quality. In the end they would have only been ahead on their jump elements by less than a point.

Both pairs did a throw 3Sal and M/D did throw 3Toe instead of 2Axel, but G/G had the better twist throw. So they would have been approximately even there.

On the spins Grinkov just made a little mistake on the sbs spin, losing a bit of unison at the end, and it was a more difficult spin so they would have scored higher for it. On the other hand M/D had the more difficult pair spin, although it also wasn't executed perfectly. So let's so they are equal here.

G/G beat M/D on the lifts. It's hard to say exactly the point differential here but, let's just say it makes up the difference they lost on the sbs jumps. So now it just comes down to the footwork. Dmitriev made a mistake there, which means G/G likely would have edged them out on the total technical score.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Mao Asada should do 1loop-1loop-1loop-1loop-1loop-infinity for 4 min and win another World. What non-sense is this?
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Good analysis by BOP. We are scoring what was done because had we used today's rules those teams may have amended their programs. In particular, i believe M and D would really have to do something about those lifts Those are huge points and there are several of them and their's were far simpler th an G and G. Sergei was unusually nervous it appears. I really did not like the outfit on Natalia but that's just me. For some reason i am not a huge fan of essesntially pants under a skirt - it adds a certain clunkiness and made her look bottom heavy not so much physically but affected athe aesthetics and flow with the program especially in light of the rips or chiffon accents. I can't decide who should have won. There should have been maybe three gold medals one for m and d; one for g and g and one for the Canadians who probably would have won gold but for the allowing of ineligibles back into the olympics. But really what a treat to have three amazing teams. there is something text book wonderful about G and G and great skating skills like Chan or even to a point Kostner - you could just watch them stroke on the ice. m and d though had fire and passion and a wonderful reckless abandonment verus the smooth, wonderfully lined G and G. Whereas the Canadians had raw power and athletiicism - though i am sorry to say i always worried about Brasseur if she would land that double axel.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
On that night I would have chosen M/D. You cannot deny G/G's skating superiority, but I am one of the few who did not like their Moonlight Sonata. Was there any choreography in there?

Laughed at Hersh's comments, especially the 'whining Canadians'. lol.. Seriously I never 'got' B/E. He looked like Sasquatch and was skating with probably the worst skater to ever hold a world title. Brasseur's skating was so amateur and sloppy and well, just gross. If the 'pros' didn't come back that year I am certain that Shishkova and Naumov would have won the gold. No way is Brasseur going to be an Olympic champion, she's just awful. IMO. YMMV.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
wow ^^ is it necessary to talk about skaters looks in such derogatory manner ?
 

MaxSwagg

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
On that night I would have chosen M/D. You cannot deny G/G's skating superiority, but I am one of the few who did not like their Moonlight Sonata. Was there any choreography in there?

Laughed at Hersh's comments, especially the 'whining Canadians'. lol.. Seriously I never 'got' B/E. He looked like Sasquatch and was skating with probably the worst skater to ever hold a world title. Brasseur's skating was so amateur and sloppy and well, just gross. If the 'pros' didn't come back that year I am certain that Shishkova and Naumov would have won the gold. No way is Brasseur going to be an Olympic champion, she's just awful. IMO. YMMV.

YES! What a crybaby! Practically every time the camera was on him he was being a crybaby.
 
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