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You're right, this performance makes me like the program better, but I can't figure out why
.It's much more dynamic here, somehow. Something in their energy?
Analyzing G/G and M/D Lillehammer programs
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You're right, this performance makes me like the program better, but I can't figure out why
.It's much more dynamic here, somehow. Something in their energy?
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That isn't really a fair standard, though. We don't really know what they would have done if requirements were different then. Even so, I think G/G's lifts were well superior to Sui/Han's. Difficult positions don't trump beauty of line and air position IMO.
However, G/G did do beautiful throw triple jumps, salchow for one. Also, they did a quad twist one year (I think 86-87) at several competitions. The commentators called it as a triple (Scott Hamilton acknowledged his error the next time he called it); and the team decided to take it out. Their triple twist was bigger, higher, more beautiful than anyone else's at that time, and they didn't need the quad.
I love Sui/Han, but for me, all the elements you mentioned are not the whole picture in pairs skating.
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Exactly, well said. :agree:
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The battle of the Protopopov and G/G is like the St. Petersburg v. Moscow pairs school debate. Apparently the Moscow school thought St. Petersburg produced "swans" but very slow and boring swans. I think Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze were Moskvina's attempt to combine the two schools' philosophies.
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Yes, I'm down for another wuzzrobbed debate. 
How about a Nagano edition: Tara vs Michelle, Ilia vs Elvis, Bourne and Kraatz vs the three dance teams on the podium...
Or we could do 2014 worlds: Anna Pogo vs Carolina for bronze? Weaver and Poje vs Cappellini and Lanotte?
How about a Nagano edition: Tara vs Michelle, Ilia vs Elvis, Bourne and Kraatz vs the three dance teams on the podium...Or we could do 2014 worlds: Anna Pogo vs Carolina for bronze? Weaver and Poje vs Cappellini and Lanotte?
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Yes, I'm down for another wuzzrobbed debate.
Or we could do 2014 worlds: Anna Pogo vs Carolina for bronze? Weaver and Poje vs Cappellini and Lanotte?
Tara/Michelle or Pogo/Caro!
Yes, I'm down for another wuzzrobbed debate.
Or we could do 2014 worlds: Anna Pogo vs Carolina for bronze? Weaver and Poje vs Cappellini and Lanotte?
Pechalat/Bourzat should also be in the conversation for 2014 Worlds...
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I think there is not much to say about the final result of the ladies and men's event respectively since the winners were technically far ahead of the runner-ups although I wanted Elvis to have his life-time dream. Urmanov vs Stojko and Grishuk/Platov vs Torvill/Dean were a bit of debate by skating fans after Lillehammer though. When it comes to Nagano, I'm more interested in the pair judging such as the silver by Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze over the other two teams. Their silver there was personally more debatable than their 2002 Gold.
The original poster said she has wanted the series to stay topics from the 6.0 system.
The original poster said she has wanted the series to stay topics from the 6.0 system.
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What about B/K vs. FP/M vs. D/V for bronze in Salt Lake City? (IMO, Fusar-Poli and Margaglio didn't skate like they did in 2001 and therefore should have dropped to 4th or 5th, although I also should add I didn't see the compulsory dances, any of them).
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We should probably start a new thread for Dance, but I feel the Italians should have been 5th in both 2001 and 2002. 
1998 Olympic Dance event is pretty crazy. I think it should have gone as:
...Compulsory 1..............Compulsory 2..............Original Dance..............Free Dance
1. Anissina/Peizerat......1. Krylov/Ovsykov....1. Krylov/Ovsykov.....1. Punsalan/Swallow
2. Krylov/Ovsykov.....2. Grishuk/Platov..... 2. Grishuk/Platov.......2. Bourne/Kraatz
3. Punsalan/Swallow.....3. Anissina/Peizerat......3. Anissina/Peizerat......3. Grishuk/Platov
4. Lobachev/Averbuk....4. Bourne/Kraatz..........4. Punsalan/Swallow.....4. Krylov/Ovsykov
5. Grishuk/Platov.......5. Lobachev/Averbuk....5. Lobachev/Averbuk....5. Anissina/Peizerat
6. Bourne/Kraatz..........6. Punsalan/Swallow.....6. Bourne/Kraatz..........6. Lobachev/Averbuk
Punsalan/Swallow were only placed 7th in the event but actually their Free Dance was by far the best, their Golden Waltz was very strong, their Original Dance was better than it was given credit for...with this ranking they would have won the competition, in a tie-breaker against Krylova/Ovsyannikov! What a stunning surprise that would have been. It's amazing how Punsalan/Swallow were able to pull off such a Free Dance, they never skated anywhere near that well in competition until that very moment.
Grishuk/Platov would be 3rd, Bourne/Kraatz in 4th (have to feel for them not getting a medal after the Free Dance, but their OD was poop and their compulsories lacking), Anissina/Peizerat in 5th (they started the competition amazingly and would be my pick to win if they skated their best, but they lost steam after that first dance and made too many errors), and then finally Lobacheva/Averbukh in 6th.
The most difficult thing to rank here, for me, is actually 4th and 5th place in the Original Dance between Punsalan/Swallow and Lobacheva/Averbukh. Under this scoring system that one placement makes the difference between 1st place and 3rd place overall for Punsalan/Swallow. Shows how random this can all be and why it really does have to be about taking joy in the performance, not how the numbers end up turning out with the judging.
1998 Olympic Dance event is pretty crazy. I think it should have gone as:
...Compulsory 1..............Compulsory 2..............Original Dance..............Free Dance
1. Anissina/Peizerat......1. Krylov/Ovsykov....1. Krylov/Ovsykov.....1. Punsalan/Swallow
2. Krylov/Ovsykov.....2. Grishuk/Platov..... 2. Grishuk/Platov.......2. Bourne/Kraatz
3. Punsalan/Swallow.....3. Anissina/Peizerat......3. Anissina/Peizerat......3. Grishuk/Platov
4. Lobachev/Averbuk....4. Bourne/Kraatz..........4. Punsalan/Swallow.....4. Krylov/Ovsykov
5. Grishuk/Platov.......5. Lobachev/Averbuk....5. Lobachev/Averbuk....5. Anissina/Peizerat
6. Bourne/Kraatz..........6. Punsalan/Swallow.....6. Bourne/Kraatz..........6. Lobachev/Averbuk
Punsalan/Swallow were only placed 7th in the event but actually their Free Dance was by far the best, their Golden Waltz was very strong, their Original Dance was better than it was given credit for...with this ranking they would have won the competition, in a tie-breaker against Krylova/Ovsyannikov! What a stunning surprise that would have been. It's amazing how Punsalan/Swallow were able to pull off such a Free Dance, they never skated anywhere near that well in competition until that very moment.
Grishuk/Platov would be 3rd, Bourne/Kraatz in 4th (have to feel for them not getting a medal after the Free Dance, but their OD was poop and their compulsories lacking), Anissina/Peizerat in 5th (they started the competition amazingly and would be my pick to win if they skated their best, but they lost steam after that first dance and made too many errors), and then finally Lobacheva/Averbukh in 6th.
The most difficult thing to rank here, for me, is actually 4th and 5th place in the Original Dance between Punsalan/Swallow and Lobacheva/Averbukh. Under this scoring system that one placement makes the difference between 1st place and 3rd place overall for Punsalan/Swallow. Shows how random this can all be and why it really does have to be about taking joy in the performance, not how the numbers end up turning out with the judging.
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- Mar 23, 2014
Ooooh thanks for sharing ideas for the next thread! I definitely want to do men or dance next, and yes, only things in the 6.0 system, partially to keep us from rehashing anything too recent and also because 6.0 allows us to see how the skaters were ranked by judges and discuss that aspect as well.
I barely followed dance at all until IJS, so I appreciate all of the suggestions. I was also considering Viktor Petrenko/Paul Wylie in 1992 for men. Were there any other very close results for men in the 90s/early 2000s? Plushenko and Yagudin frequently placed 1/2, but I haven't gone back to rewatch to see if the results were ever actually close or not though.
Also, I don't think I'll ever suggest Tara/Michelle in 1998. Too controversial! When we circle back around to ladies I'm thinking about Michelle/Lu Chen in 1996. It was a very close result (IIRC?) and both ladies skated amazingly, so I think it's worth revisiting; while the scores/results might not be debated, I think the performances may be worth comparing.
I barely followed dance at all until IJS, so I appreciate all of the suggestions. I was also considering Viktor Petrenko/Paul Wylie in 1992 for men. Were there any other very close results for men in the 90s/early 2000s? Plushenko and Yagudin frequently placed 1/2, but I haven't gone back to rewatch to see if the results were ever actually close or not though.
Also, I don't think I'll ever suggest Tara/Michelle in 1998. Too controversial!
When we circle back around to ladies I'm thinking about Michelle/Lu Chen in 1996. It was a very close result (IIRC?) and both ladies skated amazingly, so I think it's worth revisiting; while the scores/results might not be debated, I think the performances may be worth comparing.
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Maybe Yagudin/Plushenko at 2001 GPF? They were pretty close there I think, both had little bobbles here and there but Yagudin came out on top in the end.
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Also, I don't think I'll ever suggest Tara/Michelle in 1998. Too controversial!
As the world's biggest Michelle fan, I was hoping for Michelle to win, but I have to give Tara props for skating her heart out. No lasting regrets.
Michelle vs. Lulu, a competition for the ages, both were amazing, should have been a co-championship. (Although Michelle's short program Romanza still stands apart as one of the iconic short programs of the 6.0 era.)
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We were at a resort watching on TV, and my wife (supporting Bonaly) almost came to blows with another lady guest who was vociferously on the Sato side. Considering that both skaters went on to wonderful careers as professional and show skaters, again, no regrets. As for the competition, they both had unique strengths and also areas where they weren't so strong, so it was just a preference for style, IMHO.
I think I am the only skating fan in the world who never got tired of seeing Hat Full of Stars.
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We were at a resort watching on TV, and my wife (supporting Bonaly) almost came to blows with another lady guest who was vociferously on the Sato side. Considering that both skaters went on to wonderful careers as professional and show skaters, again, no regrets. As for the competition, they both had unique strengths and also areas where they weren't so strong, so it was just a preference for style, IMHO.
I think I am the only skating fan in the world who never got tired of seeing Hat Full of Stars.
I only got tired of HFOS after the 30th time she kept skating to it.... lol
As for Bonaly/Sato, well, it was gymnastics on ice vs ice skating. Factor in the home crowd and Bonaly's messy landings, well, I didn't think it was all that close tbh. Another thing that I always say is you have to see a skater LIVE to be able to compare. Bonaly was herky jerky and Sato was smooth as silk. Sato skated with 'natural' speed while Bonaly was pumping those crossovers away.
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