Why is Michelle Kwan the best in the world? | Golden Skate

Why is Michelle Kwan the best in the world?

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christinaskater

Guest
Why is Michelle Kwan the best in the world?

Michelle Kwan has no problem this yr i think lacking 3-3 combo is not a problem

AGAIN FIGURE SKATING IS NOT FIGURE JUMPING ITS NOT THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES IT A SPORT

Michelle has the best jumps in the business so steady and secure, the distance and height and rotations have improved so much this year,her jumps are so beautiful the preparation and checking of the landings are so amazing. Judges are blind not to acknowledge MK's jumps and consistency. Especially during the nationals everything was textbook perfect PERFECT

She has the best spiral overall aspect of it
2nd in extension but her back spiral in FOG is 180 i believe too
The edge and holding of her spirals are exquisite, she makes u believe she is superwoman she is flying because of the speed, strength and edge she achieves,


Spins are amazing this year, i like how she makes her moves the best, her layback maynot be classic but it looks better for me than the other layback spins

Her combination spins are so fast and centered, really excellent stretch and extensions

FOOTWORK No one touches her footwork in all of ladies skating simply the BEST.

Stag jumps, inas, spread eagles are the best for me, Ina is good but not the best

Artistry and musicality no one else comes close to her
Yukina Ota, S Cohen is R and Juliet, Fumie are the nearest but still far from Michelle

Speed has improved so much

Flow on ice- She is the best

Edging- She is the best

Competitive Fire, freedom, joy-She is still the best

Stage presence and acting ability and command of the audience is at par with Cohen and better in a lot of aspects She is the best

Consistency 5 out 5 this year thats it

The Most Known Most decorated figure skater in US History
 
E

elingrace4eva

Guest
Re: WHY IS MICHELLE KWAN THE BEST IN THE WORLD

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>She has the best spiral[/quote]

I saw them both live at worlds, and Sasha's spiral is faster, her edges are perfect, and her extension is incredible. I don't think you can convince most people that Michlle has a better spiral.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The Most Known Most decorated figure skater in US History [/quote]

I'll agree with (most of) the rest of it, but being the most decorated in the past doesn't necesarilly make you the best in the world. In this case, the best in the world happens to be the most decorated, but she isn't the best in the world BECAUSE she is the most decorated.

The rest was a really good analysis of Michelle's skating. You're completely right about why she's the best in the world.

Kat
 
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Show 42

Guest
Re: WHY IS MICHELLE KWAN THE BEST IN THE WORLD

Good overall analysis, christinaskater......I tend to agree with most of what you said.........:D 42
 
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AY2006

Guest
Re: WHY IS MICHELLE KWAN THE BEST IN THE WORLD

I haven't seen Sasha live yet, so this is based on my observation on TV.

If Sasha's spiral is indeed faster, why doesn't she get more ice coverage? She goes about 1/3 of the rink in one position, then gathers herself and gains momentum, and then starts her next position. Michelle goes about 3/4 of the rink in one stroke with a change of edge in between. For someone who supposedly lacks speed, that's remarkable.

Also, if her edges are so secure during spirals, why can't she do the same in the rest of her skating? Her crossovers generate far more noise (and ice flakes) than Michelle's or Fumie's. If she skates with deeper edges, both the noise level and the amount of ice flakes will go down.

Anyway, I hope to see Sasha's skating live at COI next month. (No Sarah and Fumie live yet.)
 
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eltamina

Guest
Re: WHY IS MICHELLE KWAN THE BEST IN THE WORLD

Michelle Kwan is ranked #1 by ISU, she is the most decorated skater in US history, and the lady skater with the most 6.0s at worlds (at least in recent history). That is good enough for me. "Best" is like beauty, it is to the eye of the beholder.

About spirals: A while back I post several polls asking what people to rank what element of a spiral is the most important.

People think edges, ice coverage and speed are the most important.

Second most important is extension, and amplitude is down at the bottom or second to last.

pub94.ezboard.com/fgolden...D=77.topic

pub94.ezboard.com/fgolden...D=76.topic

pub94.ezboard.com/fgolden...D=75.topic

pub94.ezboard.com/fgolden...D=74.topic

pub94.ezboard.com/fgolden...D=73.topic

BTW, there is a difference b/w extension and ampliutde. MK, SC, Sato have excellent extensiion.

Sarah and SC have excellent amplitude (split)

I too was at worlds, IMHO Sasha's spiral is not better than Michelle. If Irina is there I will rank IS spiral better than Sasha's. SC has good edges ( IMO not perfect per elingrace), but MK, IS and even Sarah have deeper edges than Sasha.

Sandra Loosemore's was not raving about Sasha's edges in her spirals either.
www.frogsonice.com/skatew...03-worlds/

I give a lot of credit to Sarah's forward inside edge spiral, because she has a deep edge, and FI spiral is more difficult than FO spiral.

About ice coverage. There is ice coverage and there is ice coverage. Some people just say this skater covers 3/4 of the rink with her change of edge spiral. That is just one dimensional. We have to look at the shape that the edges carved on the ice when the skater is going forward to cover the 3/4 rink.

Is the skater doing a thin S, that looks more like the integration sign in calculus?
archives.math.utk.edu/vis...index.html

Is the skater doing a big huge fat letter S?

In the exhibition program encore, MK's COE spiral carved a huge fat letter S, plus some more, at the end of the spiral there were concentric circles.

In 1999 world gala program the red violin, MK practically edged the number 8 on the ice. The summation of the linear distance (over 3/4 rink) with a letter 8 or a huge fat S is >>>> a skinny calcalus sign.

<span style="color:red;font-size:medium;">Congrats Fumie 2 consecutive world medals, and many more</span>
 
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LAVENDER

Guest
I think I've been convinced

Michelle has the better overall spiral. She doesn't have Sasha's extension but that's about it.
 
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eltamina

Guest
Re: I think I've been convinced

Lavendar, I have to disagree that Sasha has better extension. To me extension is the stretch from finger tip throughout the whole body. MK, Yuka Kristi Sasha Nicole all have about equal extension. I think Yelena has the best extension. Imagine all 5 feet and 0.5 inch of her stretching and extending to match Anton's > 6 ft?

Ampliutde is the magnitude of the split, and Sasha has more amplitude than Michelle. Sasha, Sarah and Nicole all have great amplitude.

How important is amplitude as an element of a good spiral, referring to the survey/ poll, it certainly is not ranked very high.

<span style="color:red;font-size:medium;">Congrats Michelle, Elena, and Fumie</span>
 
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Jules Asner

Guest
Re: I think I've been convinced

I think MK is the best at the moment overall. She has the most complete package and is artistically mature.

I was watching an old tape yesterday with Yuka Sato, Paul Wylie and some others and the biggest difference I noticed is that today's skaters cannot hold a candle to the old timers on edge and footwork, which seemed to be throughout the program not just in one "footwork sequence". Even without figures, they were still clearly more skaters than jumpers while today it seems to becoming the opposite.

This is off topic but I thought it was interesting, Paul Wylie at this professional competition did not have a triple axel and received very low artistic marks even though it was a brilliant clean performance (On the Waterfront) except one judge gave him a 6.0 - the Russian. When Paul saw the 6.0 he said "The Russian judges, they always love me!"
 
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SHINE2002

Guest
Re: I think I've been convinced

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I saw them both live at worlds, and Sasha's spiral is faster, her edges are perfect, and her extension is incredible. I don't think you can convince most people that Michlle has a better spiral.[/quote]
LMAO! One could definitely be argueing for the extension and the amplitude of Sasha's spiral, but speed and edges? HA HA HA.
 
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Lanternlight

Guest
Re: I think I've been convinced

I saw Sasha's spiral at Worlds as well, it was completely on a flat. Amazing extension though, but MK's is better on the inside edge especially.
 
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icenut84

Guest
Michelle etc

Well, if this is an overall analysis of the skaters, hopefully I can be unbaised as I love Michelle's skating but I also love the other girls' skating.
(I'll just do this on Michelle, Irina & Sasha)

Spins:
Michelle has very nice positions and very good centering, but she is not as fast as the others, and does not have particularly difficult positions. (Her combo spin at Worlds was just camel-sit-back sit-upright.) Yes, she can get speed on spins like the layback and sit spin, but her camel is quite slow, certainly compared to some of the others.
Irina has tremendous speed and difficult positions. I find her positions just as aesthetically pleasing as Michelle's. Sometimes she has a little travel, but not much.
Sasha also gets good speed, though not as much as Irina. I can't remember what her centering's like. She also achieves very difficult (and aesthetic) positions, and has IMO the best layback position.

Jumps:
Michelle is consistent. She has good technique (apart from a slight flutz), and usually has good running edges out.
Irina gets the most height and power of the three, easily. She usually has good run-out, although sometimes not as much. She has a very good air position, and terrific technique (apart from the occasional flutz, but it's not that often).
Sasha has a very good air position, good technique overall I think (apart from the flutz). She doesn't get as much distance as the others I think, or height.

Spirals:
Michelle gets very good amplitude, good extension, and has deep edges. Her change-edge is usually very smooth and precise. She often has crossovers etc between the spirals though.
Irina doesn't have quite the amplitude or extension of Michelle, though it is still very good. Her edges are just as deep if not deeper, and she maintains or even increases speed very well. She does not put crossovers between the spirals.
Sasha has excellent extension, good edges (but not as deep as Irina or Michelle) and not the same speed. She also needs crossovers between them. I think her hip position isn't the best either, but that might just be me.

Footwork:
Michelle's in the LP has been very good this year. Very expressive, interesting, more difficult than she usually does. But apart from in the step sequences, she never seems to have that much footwork throughout the programmes. She seems to me to spend most of the time doing crossovers between elements, especially in the first minute or two.
Irina's footwork is very good. She has a great one-foot sequence. Her footwork is usually very difficult and executed with good speed and good use of edges, and is interesting. She also incorporates more footwork throughout her programmes than Michelle. Has lots of in-betweens.
Sasha's footwork has improved a lot this year, I think, in her SP/LP. A bit too much toe-tapping for me, but I can see it's good. She has more in-betweens than Michelle, usually.

Presentation/artistry:
Michelle has superb carriage, smoothness and grace. Some of her programmes have been very musical and original (Red Violin), but to me, some of them just look like same-old (Aranjuez, minus the step sequence). She interprets the music but not all of it.
Irina does not have the same carriage as Michelle. She is a very smooth skater though. Her programmes interpret all or most of the music, every beat & highlight. I don't think she's given enough credit by fans for the presentation side, because they think it refers solely to looking like a ballerina and being graceful. E.g. I think her Timeless exhibition had wonderful artistry, but she was not trying to be a ballerina.
Sasha is very graceful, has smooth carriage and excellent posture. She is expressive and uses her arms well. Sometimes she looks a little forced or phoney, but she really attacks her programmes (e.g. in the SP after she fell on the flip).

Overall, I would say that all three skaters have many things that the others don't, period. All three are amazingly talented individuals. Do I think it's a slam-dunk as to who's the best? No way. What I think is that any match-up between them is a great competition. And then you add to the mix Fumie Suguri, Sarah Hughes, Viktoria Volchkova, Elena Sokolova...
 
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mpal2

Guest
Re: Michelle etc

As I was skimming through the topic, I realized something. It's not about who the best overall skater is, it's about who the poster's favorite skater is. If we were to put all the posts together, we might actually be able to come up with the best skater. :p
 
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Mathman3

Guest
Re: Michelle etc

Nah, we'll never agree on that. That's the fun of skating, to root for your fave!:)

Mathman
 
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LAVENDER

Guest
Re: Why is Michelle Kwan the best in the world?

You're right eltamina. I used the wrong word.
 
X

XPEG

Guest
Re: Why is Michelle Kwan the best in the world?

Icenut84, that was a good comparison of the three skaters. I am confused about the Sasha spiral thing. A bunch of people note how Sasha skates her spiral on the flat, while another group states that she has a nice edge. Don't know who to believe. Her spiral, to me anyway seeing it on tv, doesn't look as secure as MK's. And I have noted people commenting on the fact that because Sasha has an edging problem, that may be responsible for her insecure jump landings.

Also, in my opinion, you can't lump Sasha in with MK and Irina as "best in the world" until Sasha starts winning more consistantly. That may come next year. (She did win the GPF, but a feel Irina's problem may have played a role in that.)
 
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christinaskater

Guest
Re: Why is Michelle Kwan the best in the world?

I agree that she may not be the best in all elements but she is 2nd or 3rd in some of those elements which means she is really excellent

In her skating she is the summa cumlaude of Figure skating

SHE IS AN ALL AROUND SKATER
 
A

alicelouise

Guest
Why is Michelle Kwan the best in the world?

Michelle Kwan, even in her earliest senior days, always has been the whole package in the best sense of the word. Jumps, spins, artistry, technique and consistency are all at a high level. There are no issues with any of these areas as opposed to her nearest rivals.

A post from a few years back(other board) had said that to the effect that Michelle Kwan was not the best in any given area; but, at least was very good in each area. (I think it was being able to "play all the notes... or something like that). I thought that it was a back handed compliment at the time. It was not that. This comes back to being the "whole package" as opposed to a one note performer. This is true of every sport. In tennis, Roscoe Tanner had a booming 180-200 mph serve(with a wooden racket). He was never number one because the other elements weren't up to his serve. Bjorn Borg, on the other hand was not considered "the best" in any one area. He was number one year after year because he had no weak playing sufaces and was CONSISTENT. This brings us to our next point...

Michelle's biggest trump is her consistency. All of the 3/3s, triple axels and would be quads that are landed beautifully in practice are worthless if you can only hit them 50% of the time. All of Michelle's elements are "money" elements during competition.
 
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christinaskater

Guest
Re: Why is Michelle Kwan the best in the world?

Michelle KWAN USA
> Blue dress for her with gold across the chest and on the
> sides... simon and
> chris think she's as good, if not better than, ever. this
> is it then simon
> says...has she got her poker face on tongight he asks? we
> see her mum...
> aranjuaz the music (spelling? help!) little turn to
> begin... and she's
> off... loop triple is fine... the shine on the ice is
> something else... litz
> triple and double toe and she's clean... back spiral in
> glide just noting it
> for the nice position... down for the flip and that's
> clean...you could see
> her concentrating..2ax ...into flying camel.... held for
> ages to allow us to
> admire the position... great look on her face in the
> steps.... triple
> sal....camel to sit change sit and upright.... and
> scratch spin... crowd are
> enjoying this..split jump... spiral change edge
> spiral...love that move!
> down for the triple toe hard landing fdouble toe...good
> girl... around
> gain... lutz yes! triple...ato the boards....striaght
> line step...the crowd
> are scremaing oh you should hear them lads! this is
> brilliant....can I say
> that ? yes I can... split jump spread....and the
> noise.... flying sit.... to
> Y spin.... and layback.... oh my god...the noise.... and
> she extends herarms
> and they are standign and I have chills and oh my god! oh
> my god! I don't
> predict any more becuase we all remember the pairs at the
> olympics but that
> was majestic. It doesn't get any better simon says, and
> holy hannah, i
> agree. and I'm telling you, if that doesn't deserve a 6,
> ain't no program
> ever deserving of a six. mum is in tears, and is it
> mother's day in the
> states tomorrow? cause that's something to give your ma
> for the day! great
> sign - dignity class kwna, with DC highlighted. and so
> much stuff on the
> ice... oh wow oh wow....chills I'm telling you and it's
> nothign to do with
> the hour of the night! (4.14 in the morning since you
> ask!) step sequence
> was great...close up of change edge spiral... and I'd
> give six let me tell
> you now. great shot of her with american flag waving
> behind her.
> marks... long wait and she's laughing and waving...chris
> hasn't hear
> anything like it... 5.7-5.9..2 of the first, one of
> second rest middle...
> 5.8-6.0 - two sixes, one 8 the rest nine and look at her
> celebrate! there's
> brian b in the stands.... and karen...
>
>
 
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