2016 Lombardia Trophy Mens FS | Page 11 | Golden Skate

2016 Lombardia Trophy Mens FS

Tavi...

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
You seem to have some personal problem with me...

No. Who said it was a fact?

And Hanyu doesn't get "benefits of the doubt." He fights for every point he gets (not that he ever really under-rotates to begin with...and you're trying to compare to Jason Brown? Don't do it, alright, it would be a bad move...). He is not even here so why are you mentioning him or anyone else? It doesn't matter; what matters is correct judging.

I don't have a personal problem with you because I don't know you. I do have a problem with your posting style because IMO, you frequently post negative statements about skaters other than your favorites and present them as fact. Let's take this statement you recently made in the "New Short a Release for Duhamel" thread:


8/29/2016
#3

Isn't she tired? Really, judges and Duhamel are responsible for destroying the pairs discipline. Any injuries that come to them or other pairs is on they and the judges' heads.

Here you express two highly negative, even inflammatory, opinions about the judges and a skater you apparently don't like very much: that they are (1) responsible for destroying the pairs discipline; and (2) that they will be responsible for any injuries that occur in the pairs discipline.

These are your opinions, not facts. You have presented no evidence showing that (1) the pairs discipline is being destroyed; and (2) Duhamel and the judges are responsible; nor have you cited any evidence in support of your conclusion that they will be responsible for all future injuries. Yet you present them as absolute statements, without any of the customary qualifiers such as "I think," "IMO," etc.

It's a similar thing here regarding the call on Jason's quad: you simply state as fact that the call was wrong. You have no evidence, it's just your opinion. And, may I add, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. But other people are entitled to disagree, and IMO when you state something like that as a fact it comes off as bullying and know it all.

As to your statements about the call on Jason's quad: you seem to equate "correct judging" with "judging MaxSwagg thinks is correct." But they're not the same thing. Again, where is your evidence that the < you saw was beyond the acceptable range?

One final thing. You state that I shouldn't compare Jason to Hanyu because Hanyu (1) never really < his jumps; and (2) he fights for every point he gets. Your first point is factually incorrect. All you have to is go back and look at his FS protocols from 2012 - 2016 and you will see that he does, in fact < jumps from time to time. As to your second point: do you think Hanyu is the only skater who "fights for every point he gets"? Because I'm pretty sure all skaters fight for every point they get, and to imply otherwise is insulting. But you really missed my point. Much as I admire Hanyu, he has IMO benefitted from generous calling when he didn't deserve it: see, eg, his silver medal at COC. IMO, as much grit as he showed, he didn't deserve PCS scores between 8-9 for performance, execution, and choreography. But you know what? He got them. And that's that.
 

Raomina

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
his second 3A is not alone it is a planned 3A 1/2Loop 3F that he didn't do because the landing on his axel was not good.

And I agree with you, I didn't like the music (especially the end tbh) when he debuted it but I actually loved it here. I think that program has the potential to be amazing. He does get overpowered when the singer is screaming at the end but I am confident it is a beginning of the season thing.

I see, thanks for the clarification! That would make more sense. I think the 3A-3T should still be solo though, as that's when the music stops. In any case, it's looking much better than his SP right now. I can't help but think of Mao's choreography to that music and how much better her choreography was at different points in the music. Hopefully it'll get better later in the season as well!
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Yes, I agree that the sequence of the two spirals etc. correlate with the music but they seem to be the only spirals that do. He uses his hands and arms very nicely throughout the piece, but I'm not so sure about his legs, which he lifts up above his head many times without any accents in the music to accompany such 'big' moves. He's one of the only guys who does spirals, which is great (I think more men should do it), but personally, I feel that he does it too much if you also include all the times he kicks his leg up, which is why these 'choreographic moves' might've been distracting and 'filler-like' for me when the music is so soft and flowing. I also agree that his innate musicality carries the weight of the musical interpretation for this program (like, I don't think he needs to be directed to move his hands and arms with the music), but the choreography is the part I'm not so keen about, which is why I said it wouldn't have mattered which instrumental music it was.

Some skaters do overuse certain moves they do well. Maybe there should be Zayaking rule re Tano arms in every jump, blade grabbing in every spin and spiral, or even too frequent leg-up? :) At least such limiting should be self imposed for choreographic and artistic reasons.
 

Raomina

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Some skaters do overuse certain moves they do well. Maybe there should be Zayaking rule re Tano arms in every jump, blade grabbing in every spin and spiral, or even too frequent leg-up? :) At least such limiting should be self imposed for choreographic and artistic reasons.

I completely agree. Once it goes from 'ooh that's nice' to 'that again??' within the same program, something has to be done, especially if it has nothing to do with the music.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
It sailed over your head because it was not funny but you tried the funny angle to figure it out. *clue*

I was amused by how much you tried to explain that you meant no offense to anyone so I was prompted to suggest that you tried to cover all the angles, thus Angles Coverage as a deviation of ice coverage. See, no funny angle.

BTW, you can buy All Angles Covered on ebay.



To mesh means to match or coordinate, so my unintended new mashup term was not so off, eh? :eek:: The concepts/names mesh well, don't they?

No funny angle perhaps, but clever word play :cool:. And I like word play :yes:.

So I am liking your inadvertent coinage of mesh-up :).

Meanwhile, the meerkats with all angles covered made me literally LOL :laugh:.

Also metaphorically LOLing over my all-too-obvious paranoia about not coming across as snarky. Just wanted to be clear b/c of the immediately preceding discussion that had some differences of opinion. (Yes, this post is another example of why Angle Coverage is apt :hopelessness:.)


A snapshot of the ISU World Standings after Lombardia:

Shoma is third; Max moved up to fifth; and Jason moved up to eleventh.

1 4098 Yuzuru HANYU
2 3944 Javier FERNANDEZ
3 3165 Shoma UNO
4 2607 Adam RIPPON
5 2586 Max AARON
6 2557 Maxim KOVTUN
7 2556 Denis TEN
8 2525 Boyang JIN
9 2511 Michal BREZINA
10 2489 Sergei VORONOV
11 2422 Jason BROWN
12 2227 Takahito MURA
13 2148 Daniel SAMOHIN

http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsmen.htm

(Lest anyone wonder: I do understand that the standings are only a snapshot, and will be changing week by week. In all likelihood, Jason will be moving up again after the US Classic. And yes, b/c of his injury last season, Jason did not have as many opportunities to earn standings points.)
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Some skaters do overuse certain moves they do well. Maybe there should be Zayaking rule re Tano arms in every jump, blade grabbing in every spin and spiral, or even too frequent leg-up? :) At least such limiting should be self imposed for choreographic and artistic reasons.

FWIW, it's not like Jason has done EVERY program with lots of spirals and legs-up. It feels like it because both his programs have more of them, but his past programs don't have a ton of them, IMO.

And while it may bother some at home watching a video feed, it didn't seem to bother the audience at Lombardia, who gave a partial standing ovation. Nor did it bother the audience in Spokane at TCC who gave him a rousing ovation then (I was there, it was roaring). So YMMV, I suppose! (And I bet the German judge agrees with many of you given that she gave Shoma like 7 points more PCS. :biggrin:)
 

Sabrina

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
I come late as I just discovered the youtube videos. I lived Shoma's LP! At first, when the vocals started, for a couple of seconds I thought he chose a Japanese song, only to realize I understand the words. I would say that if you understand the words, the movement makes more sense. I agree that Shoma might have a small problem with is soft, short stature. Spanish/Argentinian tangos are very difficult to interpret and look good. But I have confidence he would improve a little bit (he doesn't need a lot of improvement:laugh:) and everything will be OK. In the end it it is a tango about a crazy person.
I was very happy for Jason. I can't say I am happy he chose the piano music, though piano concertos and other piano works are my favourite...
 
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