2016 US International Classic FD | Page 4 | Golden Skate

2016 US International Classic FD

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I have seen the videos. Tell me what are D/L doing to Paul and Islam, it felt like a greatest hits medley to elevator music. Can they really ONLY do one type of FD? I feel cheated and I'm not the one skating :( It's lovely mind you, but its something we've seen them do over and over and over :confused:
 
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Interspectator

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
I have a question for those who follow Ice Dance closely, unlike yours truly, who only pops in to see the medal winners. Do you think Chris and Kana have a chance to place 4th or 5th on the GP circuit? What do you think of their chances?
Japan has never had a strong dance pair and it's held them back a lot during team events. I'm wondering if Chris and Kana can place high enough to make any difference in points in team events or even win a medal on the Grand Prix circuit?
 

yyyskate

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
I'm so glad I didn't give up on IN. Those last few skates were so worth it.

I'm so thrilled to share this with other thrilled Madi/Zach fans. Has anyone else watched TSL 37 min. interview with them this month? It's really wonderful. Madi especially goes sort of dreamy/philosophical dance talk, it's really cool.:cool:

yes Madi is cool and really intelligent lady. love her! indeed figure skating and sports alike is really all about body language.
Zach is such a easy-going, loving partner.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
based on their scores, probably not. FD needs to be close to 100 to be a contender for the lower steps of the podium.... and I'd think high 60s for the SD... so they are quite far back still, despite a clear improvement in scores in this early competition. they are surely on the right track though..

I say this haven't seen the videos, just looking at scores.
I have a question for those who follow Ice Dance closely, unlike yours truly, who only pops in to see the medal winners. Do you think Chris and Kana have a chance to place 4th or 5th on the GP circuit? What do you think of their chances?
Japan has never had a strong dance pair and it's held them back a lot during team events. I'm wondering if Chris and Kana can place high enough to make any difference in points in team events or even win a medal on the Grand Prix circuit?
 

Giselle

Medalist
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Happy about Hubbell/Donohue's win. They look ready and improved from last year (expecially Zach, couldn't take my eyes off him in the SD). Their programs will grow on me as the season goes on I'm sure. Not conviced about some of their music cuts but both programs were over too quickly which is always a good sign.

Depressed about Paul/Islam. Their SD is the most generic Sing Sing Sing program ever like something designed for a novice team. If you're going to choose overused music you should at least add something new to it. I know I sound mean but I like them a lot and their downfall since 2014 makes me sad.
I wouldn't call Liebestraum elevator music but they desperately need to project to the audience more to make it work! They have beautiful lines and posture but when I saw them live at TEB in 2014 their lack of speed and projection were glaring. I don't feel that they have improved much on that, they still look like they skate "small" and hold back.
 

Tallorder

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
102.08 not shabby for first outing

Agreed. FYI, need to bear in mind that the BASE VALUE for the Free Dance is now higher so scores will be running a bit higher too.

Instead of just one no-level choreographic element (lift) which had a fixed 0.6 to TES base value, there are now two choreographic elements and each starts with a higher 0.7 base value. Add on top GEO which can obviously varybut based on prior year scores can add ~0.5 to 1.5 points.

Bottom line: Free Dance scores this year are going to be running ~1.5 to 2+ points higher overall than last season simply because of the rule/scoring changes.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I have a question for those who follow Ice Dance closely, unlike yours truly, who only pops in to see the medal winners. Do you think Chris and Kana have a chance to place 4th or 5th on the GP circuit? What do you think of their chances?
Japan has never had a strong dance pair and it's held them back a lot during team events. I'm wondering if Chris and Kana can place high enough to make any difference in points in team events or even win a medal on the Grand Prix circuit?

I think they have a shot at getting top 10 at Worlds and securing two spots for Japan for the Olympics. And I do think it will improve Japan's prospects in the team event.
 

zebobes

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 29, 2012
I think they have a shot at getting top 10 at Worlds and securing two spots for Japan for the Olympics. And I do think it will improve Japan's prospects in the team event.

While they may have a shot, the top is pretty full right now in Ice Dance. We have 3 strong US teams, 3 strong Canadian teams, 2 strong Italian teams, 2-3 strong French teams, and 2 kind of strong Russian teams...

Top ten is going to be VERY tough this year.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
No doubt it's a tough field, but I don't think it's insurmountable. They were 15th last year and probably could move up, depending on their progress.
 

semosk8tfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Country
United-States
Agreed. FYI, need to bear in mind that the BASE VALUE for the Free Dance is now higher so scores will be running a bit higher too.

Instead of just one no-level choreographic element (lift) which had a fixed 0.6 to TES base value, there are now two choreographic elements and each starts with a higher 0.7 base value. Add on top GEO which can obviously varybut based on prior year scores can add ~0.5 to 1.5 points.

Bottom line: Free Dance scores this year are going to be running ~1.5 to 2+ points higher overall than last season simply because of the rule/scoring changes.

Thanks for info, but I stand by my not shabby claim. They scored 10 points higher than a year ago at this event. Even accounting for rules changes that is a big jump.
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Madi and Zach have the best chemistry/connection in ice dance. It's on another level. I know people complain about how all D/L programs are similar, but there's no denying that these programs WORK for Madi and Zach.

Just a shame that there's probably no room for a #3 US dance team to move any further up.
 

lauravvv

Medalist
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Country
Latvia
2-3 strong French teams
And who are the second and third "strong" French teams who could beat Muramoto/Reed at Worlds, in your opinion? Lauriault/Le Gac who where 5th at the JGP Final and 8th at Junior Worlds last season (yes, not bad), and for whom this is the first senior season? Abachkina/Thauron who have not even moved to seniors yet and are not better than L/L-G (not meaning to say that they and L/L-G are bad)? Alessandrini/Souquet who were the French number two team last season and barely qualified for the FD at Europeans? I don't think any of them are that good at the moment. Surely Lauriault/Le Gac will have better success this season than Alessandrini/Souquet had, but will they be able to beat a Worlds top 15 team like Muramoto/Reed who very obviously continue to improve if they (M/R) skate clean? That is a big question.

Overall I agree that the ice dance top is very crowded currently and it will be very difficult for Muramoto/Reed to get into top 10.
 
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katha

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
I think what needs to be taken into consideration when talking scores is that they aren't really comparable from event to event. I know the ISU wants to pretend it can be done, but that's nonsense. This is a smaller event with a not so prominent starting field, so scores are perhaps on the generous side. Or they might be on the generous side for some pairs who don't have much direct competition here, or perhaps they're not generous at all. Who knows, but IMO it's too early to tell how it will pan out in bigger events. It wouldn't surprise me if scores drop in the GP, where the fields are more crowded. Or perhaps top pairs will get even more inflated scores (the scoring at Worlds was frankly scary in that regard IMO...), so what looks like high scores now won't look all that high later on. Too many unknown factors now to know for sure.

My main take away from this event is that I'm cringing for Paul/Islam. Both their programs are just not helping them at all, it's the same old problem of being soft and small and generic. And I know it's also on them to break out of that rut and take some risks, but Montreal is going totally wrong for them. They have this twinkly style at that rink, and if you have some power to your skating it can be sold, but P/I just drown in it. :( I can't understand why D/L don't see this and steer them away from all this wishy washy softness and blandness. Ugh. H/D do typical Montreal a bit better.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
I think they have a shot at getting top 10 at Worlds and securing two spots for Japan for the Olympics. And I do think it will improve Japan's prospects in the team event.

we will see about top 10... Piper and Paul, barely made top ten... and they are miles ahead... that how deep the field is right now...

regarding the team event, it won't matter at all because the top team of all other countries will still beat them, so even if they are closer points wise, they will get the same ordinal ranking (i would compare that to Canada in ladies... our girls are stronger than a while ago but Kaetlyn didn't manage to beat the top Russian nor the top Italian, American or Japanese so didn't bring better ordinal points even if she was closer than ever to the top ladies in terms of IJS scores).... France, Usa, Canada, Russia, Italy will beat them... for sure, and we would have to see if China does too. In light of that, and considering Japan has no real Pairs team, the olympic team event is actually going to be difficult for Japan. The team that could surprise (not for a podium but just as a cinderella story) for the olympic team event could be Korea.... it is clear that their fed is pushing figure skating a lot with all these new young girls and boys making a move in singles but also with the "newly" created dance and pairs team.
 
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Ice Dance

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
I have a question for those who follow Ice Dance closely, unlike yours truly, who only pops in to see the medal winners. Do you think Chris and Kana have a chance to place 4th or 5th on the GP circuit? What do you think of their chances?
Japan has never had a strong dance pair and it's held them back a lot during team events. I'm wondering if Chris and Kana can place high enough to make any difference in points in team events or even win a medal on the Grand Prix circuit?

Kana & Chris skated out of their socks to finish 15th at Worlds last year. Higher than expected based on their season. The first question was, "Can they do it again?" Demonstrate that they are truly there. I would say this competition answered that in the affirmative.

The next battle is with the following teams: #12 Tobias & Tkachenko and #13 Fournier-Beaudry & Sorenson. #14 Testa & Csolley kindly took themselves out of the fight. And #16 Kaliszek & Spodirev are also in the game. (Took themselves out of it with mistakes at Worlds).

As I said, Testa & Csolley are out. Coomes & Buckland are a big question mark for even late this season with her knee injury. However, Bobrova & Soloviev will be back. And Virtue & Moir. Fortunately for the teams below #11, B&S's return will be balanced out by the fact that Russia can still only send two teams. So . . . if we leave Coomes & Buckland on the list until proven otherwise, the number of teams above M&R is about the same as last season.

Now, that's a bit misleading with regard to the GP because there are some other Russian and U.S. teams that can score higher. Ilinykh & Zhiganshin. And maybe Hawayek & Baker and/or Cannuscio & McManus. This makes the GP events deeper than one might anticipate based on teams in the #12-#16 fight.

Kana & Chris will be at Skate America. There are 5 teams there that can finish top 10 at Worlds.
#2 Shibs
#6 Hubbell & Donahue
#5 at the GPF Bobrova & Soloviev
# we-have-no-idea-but-they-finished-#7-at-the-2015-Worlds-and-made-the-GPF Ilynikh & Zhiganshin
#10 Guignard & Fabbri

Tobias & Tkachenko will be there. That's likely the fight. Sixth-seventh.

Kana & Chris will also be at NHK.

#1 Papadakis & Cizeron
#2 at the Olympics Virtue & Moir
#4 Cappellini & Lanotte
#9 Sinitsina & Katsalapov (a bit up in the air due to injury issues/moving)

Hawayek & Baker will be there. Cannuscio & McManus. And Kaliszek & Spodirev. 5th-8th. H&B have a GP medal & defeated M&R pretty soundly this summer. But it's in Japan. I think fifth is a longshot, but a possibility. Seventh or higher would be a success.

I would say that Guignard & Fabbri and Stepanova & Bukin are bell ringers. If M&R surprise either of them this season, then we are looking at a different group of competitors and a discussion @the top ten. For now, though, I think the battle--as mentioned above--is with teams #12-16 from Worlds.
 
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Heleng

Medalist
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Country
United-States
Bit late here but just watched Madi and Zach's both programs. Wonderful! Loved them last season too but they're really stepping it up now. Hoping they're US top two this season.
 
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