2016 JGP Tallinn Cup Mens FS

puremagic said:

Andrew probably will take second place. And by scores (PCS and 3A) with even not clean skate (like at Cup of Mordovia) he definitely will be higher than Iliya. I doubt that Erokhov or Kovalev can prevent it.

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Erokhov has a higher score in his first JGP.
Erokhov if clean has 4S and 4T, he will beat Torgahsev.

Erokhov from Tutberidze team, right? Except Pitkeev (who always had problems with axel) who can show 100% and stability? Kvitelashvili, Tarasenko or etc. All boys from Eteri group very unstable, especially after growth. I think only Skirda can be second Pitkeev, but nothing more. So no hopes for Erokhov here.

puremagic said:

Erokhov from Tutberidze team, right? Except Pitkeev (who always had problems with axel) who can show 100% and stability? Kvitelashvili, Tarasenko or etc. All boys from Eteri group very unstable, especially after growth. I think only Skirda can be second Pitkeev, but nothing more. So no hopes for Erokhov here.

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Erokhov had 2 falls in Yokohama FS, if he can land the quads he will score higher than his first outing.

CaroLiza_fan said:

Sorry for replying to the same comment twice, but curiosity got the better of me.

I think you're right.

Working on the assumption that Tuğba Karademir is your highest scoring Singles skater, I looked up her PB's, and this is how they compared:

		Başar Oktar	Tuğba Karademir
	Segment	Score	Event	Score	Event
ISU PB	Short Programme	53.63	2016 Tallinn Cup	53.88	2010 European Championships
	Free Skate	99.14	2016 Tallinn Cup	89.84	2006 World Championships
	Overall	152.77	2016 Tallinn Cup	153.25	2006 World Championships
Absolute PB	Short Programme	56.89	2016 Sofia Trophy	53.88	2010 European Championships
	Free Skate	105.90	2016 Sofia Trophy	89.84	2006 World Championships
	Overall	162.79	2016 Sofia Trophy	153.25	2006 World Championships

So, in terms of ISU PB’s, Başar’s Free Skate today is indeed the highest FS score for a Turkish skater. But Tuğba is ahead of him on the SP and overall.

But, in terms of absolute PB’s, all of Başar’s scores today are lower than what he scored at the Sofia Trophy in February. And these scores from Sofia are higher than Tuğba’s absolute PB’s.

A disclaimer, though: I did not look up anybody else!

CaroLiza_fan

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very detailed work as usual

bluelutz said:

Camden is a good skater with a serious face always.
Wondering what kind of ethnic background his last name "Pulkinen" has,
He kinda looks like Eastern European, Mediterranean or even half Asian.

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Camden is half Thai and half Finnish, French and English. "Pulkinen" was originally spelled Pulkkinen, which is a Finnish surname.

doublehelix said:

Camden is half Thai and half Finnish, French and English. "Pulkinen" was originally spelled Pulkkinen, which is a Finnish surname.

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Thanks for confirming he IS part Finnish. I recognized the last name pattern. The other details are interesting too.

puremagic said:

Erokhov from Tutberidze team, right? Except Pitkeev (who always had problems with axel) who can show 100% and stability? Kvitelashvili, Tarasenko or etc. All boys from Eteri group very unstable, especially after growth. I think only Skirda can be second Pitkeev, but nothing more. So no hopes for Erokhov here.

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Alexei has had to deal with a lot of health problems, so I don't think it's fair to say he cannot become more stable in the future or has "no hope." Unless you have a crystal ball, then there is no way of telling what his future will be like. He seems to take his career more seriously than Tarasenko (with more natural talent) and I am not sure he is a headcase like Moris. We haven't seen enough of him to really know what to expect.

matmuh said:

very detailed work as usual

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Because you're worth it!

Well, I was a pretty big fan of Tuğba (like, she's only a few months older than me). So your comment got me curious to see if she had been eclipsed as Turkey's top Singles skater.

Chemistry66 said:

It's interesting to compare those scores, especially with the 2006 World Championship scores including a Qualifying Round score. I forgot that used to be a thing.

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Ah! I didn't realise that Tuğba’s Qualifying score was included in that Overall score for 2006 Worlds (I forgot that Qualifying scores were included in the Overall score for some competitions, but not included for others).

Mmmm. That would explain why her ISU Bio had a different competition listed for her Overall ISU PB (I thought it was an error on the ISU's part )

If you just use the SP and FS scores, then Tuğba’s score from 2006 Worlds would be 134.31 (44.47 + 89.84). So, not a PB.

Here is an updated version of the table, where everything is using the same 2 segments:


So, using the revised table, Tuğba is only ahead on the ISU PB for the SP. But, it is not by much.

It is interesting to note that all of Tuğba’s absolute PB’s came from the Majors. That doesn’t happen too often nowadays. Most skaters nowadays achieve their absolute PB's at Nationals or smaller International competitions. And Başar’s PB’s are a typical example of the current trend.

Tuğba always did perform well on the big stage.

I miss her…

CaroLiza_fan

CaroLiza_fan said:

It is interesting to note that all of Tuğba’s absolute PB’s came from the Majors. That doesn’t happen too often nowadays. Most skaters nowadays achieve their absolute PB's at Nationals or smaller International competitions. And Başar’s PB’s are a typical example of the current trend.

Tuğba always did perform well on the big stage.

I miss her…

CaroLiza_fan

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I always feel like comparing scores of Men and Ladies is really unfair, since Ladies has lower factor of PCS than Men, so even earning same notes for program would amount to lower score of PCS. It's especially unfair to ladies who earn a lot on PCS, they would have a lot more points if it was factored like Men ones.

cathlen said:

I always feel like comparing scores of Men and Ladies is really unfair, since Ladies has lower factor of PCS than Men, so even earning same notes for program would amount to lower score of PCS. It's especially unfair to ladies who earn a lot on PCS, they would have a lot more points if it was factored like Men ones.

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To be fair, I agree. But, matmuh's original statement was talking about Turkish skaters in general. So, my reply did too.

Plus, I don't think there have been any really competitive Turkish Men's skaters before the current crop of Juniors started coming through. So, we can't really do a proper comparison.

Before these Juniors, the only Turkish Men's skater I can think of is Alper Uçar. And his scores when he was doing Singles skating were a LOT lower than what either Tuğba and Başar have achieved.

But, as I said, I didn't look into every Turkish skater. Just the obvious names.

CaroLiza_fan

Haven't had a chance to watch most of the Jr.Men's FS yet but watched Koshiro and :rofl2:
Had a sneaking suspicion he was gonna try the 4S even though practice reports I've read said it wasn't even close to being rotated.
The "crazy" is strong in this one too! Love it!
Anyway, this performance is my absolute favorite from him so far. Just converted me into a full blown fan.

Gotta watch Roman now because his skating is :luv17:
Bummed to hear Vincent's FS didn't go well.

silverfoxes said:

Alexei has had to deal with a lot of health problems, so I don't think it's fair to say he cannot become more stable in the future or has "no hope." Unless you have a crystal ball, then there is no way of telling what his future will be like. He seems to take his career more seriously than Tarasenko (with more natural talent) and I am not sure he is a headcase like Moris. We haven't seen enough of him to really know what to expect.

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Not comfortable with the characterization "headcase". It sounds very negative on skaters with psychological issues, especially when psychological development is bound up in the puberty process.

I'm sharing puremagic's concern about the Eteri group regarding apparent issues in psychological and physical development after growth. And it doesn't seem to be only the boys. Samrut has posted elsewhere on Yulia Lipnitskaya's challenges, and her need to move to another centre.

Questions I have centre on whether the Eteri group is taking shortcuts that mean that in terms of skills, physical development and psychological development their skaters do worse through growth. Or is it that Eteri is unable to respond to the skaters' changing needs and manage their development through growth and puberty?