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Thread: 2016 Autumn Classic Free Dance

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylark View Post
    More intense romantic vibes from the Canadian couple. Lovely skate from Soucisse/ Firus. I also like that they kept it as part of the presentation after the skate ended.
    He is great, she's cold as a rock, no emotion what so ever her face is hard...sorry doesn't work for me.
    Maybe that is why they're giving her tango music again, she had it with previous partner can't get the last name ...Simon???

  2. #122
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    V/T's FD clips on YouTube are muted, so I need to find a way to appreciate the program in its full value. I was not sold on their SD at first, but I began liking it after rewatching, so I hope the FD can grow on me likewise.

    Added: thankfully, dailymotion has an intact clip of their FD. While watching it live, I initially thought what was a difference between P/C's programs and their new FD. Unfortunately, the impression still remains the same.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4vn7gf
    Last edited by Crossover; 10-02-2016 at 10:24 AM.

  3. #123
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    Other than interpretation and music choice, what V/M lacks is difficulty. Transitions are weak with open holds, crossovers and a lot of poses, holding positions. They need more blade work and skate in close holds. I'm not going to say almost, they skated perfectly here. Skating perfect in early season is not a good news for dancers.

    Virtue&Moir's poses and small lifts before technical elements:

    Beginning pose+pose+lift (element)
    Slow crossovers in hold+pose for camera+twizzles (element)
    Open hold crossovers+crossovers in hand to hand holds+step sequence (element)
    Hand to hand poses for camera+crossovers+small jump from Tessa+hand to hand crossovers+lift (element)
    Small lift+pose+spin (element)
    Pose+lifting Tessa+same pose as beginning+side by side crossovers+pose+another pose+lifting Tessa again+pose+open hold crossovers+step sequence (element)
    Crossovers+lift (element)+pose+lift (element)+finish pose

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    Other than interpretation and music choice, what V/M lacks is difficulty. Transitions are weak with open holds, crossovers and a lot of poses, holding positions. They need more blade work and skate in close holds. I'm not going to say almost, they skated perfectly here. Skating perfect in early season is not a good news for dancers.

    Virtue&Moir's poses and small lifts before technical elements:

    Beginning pose+pose+lift (element)
    Slow crossovers in hold+pose for camera+twizzles (element)
    Open hold crossovers+crossovers in hand to hand holds+step sequence (element)
    Hand to hand poses for camera+crossovers+small jump from Tessa+hand to hand crossovers+lift (element)
    Small lift+pose+spin (element)
    Pose+lifting Tessa+same pose as beginning+side by side crossovers+pose+another pose+lifting Tessa again+pose+open hold crossovers+step sequence (element)
    Crossovers+lift (element)+pose+lift (element)+finish pose

    Spot on. Especially about if you're perfect this early, it means your dance has no room to grow. Or it's too easy for you. Or both.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    Other than interpretation and music choice, what V/M lacks is difficulty. Transitions are weak with open holds, crossovers and a lot of poses, holding positions. They need more blade work and skate in close holds. I'm not going to say almost, they skated perfectly here. Skating perfect in early season is not a good news for dancers.

    Virtue&Moir's poses and small lifts before technical elements:

    Beginning pose+pose+lift (element)
    Slow crossovers in hold+pose for camera+twizzles (element)
    Open hold crossovers+crossovers in hand to hand holds+step sequence (element)
    Hand to hand poses for camera+crossovers+small jump from Tessa+hand to hand crossovers+lift (element)
    Small lift+pose+spin (element)
    Pose+lifting Tessa+same pose as beginning+side by side crossovers+pose+another pose+lifting Tessa again+pose+open hold crossovers+step sequence (element)
    Crossovers+lift (element)+pose+lift (element)+finish pose
    1. The judges are locked into a mold thanks to G/G with almost every other notable school and team following suit. Just take a look at all the programs that have been rewarded at senior B's this far. The message is clear.

    2. Ice dance needs a team to come with innovation and novelty with the same level of GOE as the current leaders, then we might see changes. Other than that all we can do is enjoy it for what it is. We'll get diversity with the SD's but the FD are starting to look pretty much the same with few exceptions.

    3. Look at the difficulty and wow factor in C/B's new program? They still lost to C/L at Nebelhorn. I was amazed at G/P at Nebelhorn but not so much the judges. I thought they had polish, elegance and difficulty but the judges weren't buying it. So why should Scott and Tessa waste their time? The rules for lifts and the spin are quite difficult already, they may need to conserve their energy where step sequences are concerned.

  6. #126
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    V/M just WOW this spin at the beginning. The last part Witz vocals. Their connection. They are just everything. Them and French back to back OMG i am booking for Helsinki tomorrow seriously

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    3. Look at the difficulty and wow factor in C/B's new program? They still lost to C/L at Nebelhorn. I was amazed at G/P at Nebelhorn but not so much the judges. I thought they had polish, elegance and difficulty but the judges weren't buying it. So why should Scott and Tessa waste their time? The rules for lifts and the spin are quite difficult already, they may need to conserve their energy where step sequences are concerned.
    Their rivals are Papadakis/Cizeron, who are no Davis/White. What Virtue/Moir have over Papadakis/Cizeron? P/C have chemistry and talent too. They have amazing ice covarage, flow, speed. (Virtue/Moir looks slow because of transitions, they only had speed on step sequences and crossover transitions before first steps) They leave the door very wide open for Papadakis/Cizeron.

    Also as a fan, I expect more because they are former olympic champions who lost one olympic gold already. You would think they are coming back with improvements. I'm sorry to say they regressed.

    I never believe Chock/Bates's skating skills despite their world medals (kind of like Belbin/Agosto) They don't have skills to skate difficult program. This is first time they are trying which is good for them. Maybe not this season but next one. Because you cannot skate top level without this skills. Unlike C/B, V/M can skate difficulty. This is why attempting difficult program is improvement for Chock/Bates, skating open and easy program for Virtue/Moir is regression.
    Last edited by elif; 10-04-2016 at 10:28 AM.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    Their rivals are Papadakis/Cizeron, who are no Davis/White. What Virtue/Moir have over Papadakis/Cizeron? P/C have chemistry and talent too. They have amazing ice covarage, flow, speed. (Virtue/Moir looks slow because of transitions, they only had speed on step sequences and crossover transitions before first steps) They leave the door very wide open for Papadakis/Cizeron.

    Also as a fan, I expect more because they are former olympic champions who lost one olympic gold already. You would think they are coming back with improvements. I'm sorry to say they regressed.

    I never believe Chock/Bates's skating skills despite their world medals (kind of like Belbin/Agosto) They don't have skills to skate difficult program. This is first time they are trying which is good for them. Maybe not this season but next one. Because you cannot skate top level without this skills. Unlike C/B, V/M can skate difficulty. This is why attempting difficult program is improvement for Chock/Bates, skating open and easy program for Virtue/Moir is regression.
    I'm not so hard on V/M yet for that seeming lack of difficulty. They're coming back into very steep competition. I'd say their giving themselves a bit of breathing room is strategic. Come the Olympic season however, it could be something to quibble about but not at this point.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    I'm not so hard on V/M yet for that seeming lack of difficulty. They're coming back into very steep competition. I'd say their giving themselves a bit of breathing room is strategic. Come the Olympic season however, it could be something to quibble about but not at this point.
    After the ''Seasons'' and ''Latch'' I'm losing belief they can skate difficult in future. Last time they tried was ''Carmen'' which was not that successful by March. Last 2 free dances of V/M are simple and open. This season would have been great to test themself, because there is nothing to lose. If they don't skate this year, I'm sure they never will, because in the olympic season, peak time is one month early.

    When they are juniors I thought they could get and maybe even pass the level of Klimova/Ponomarenko in ice dance history; so many qualities same; lines, beauty, technic. K/P were skating that close, their dance to become hardest compulsory. (Some other dances not famous but amazing) So far V/M just showed promise but nothing else. As I fan it is disappointing for me. But I'm sure they least will get olympic silver next season.
    Last edited by elif; 10-04-2016 at 11:40 AM.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    After the ''Seasons'' and ''Latch'' I'm losing belief they can skate difficult in future. Last time they tried was ''Carmen'' which was not that successful by March. Last 2 free dances of V/M are simple and open. This season would have been great to test themself, because there is nothing to lose. If they don't skate this year, I'm sure they never will, because in the olympic season, peak time is one month early.

    When they are juniors I thought they could get and maybe even pass the level of Klimova/Ponomarenko in ice dance history; so many qualities same; lines, beauty, technic. K/P were skating that close, their dance to become hardest compulsory. (Some other dances not famous but amazing) So far V/M just showed promise but nothing else. As I fan it is disappointing for me. But I'm sure they least will get olympic silver next season.
    IMHO, the real race this OG is for bronze, just as in Sochi, but you know ice is slippery. I don't think they're going to be off the podium, not with next season's pattern dance being the rhumba. No team can do latin like these two. But hey I'm open to be surprised And no I'm not disappointed by these prospects in the least.

    EDIT: Ooops I forgot, W/P can also do a mean latin dance. It's going to be so TIGHT!!!
    Last edited by bramweld; 10-04-2016 at 12:16 PM.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    .

    Also as a fan, I expect more because they are former olympic champions who lost one olympic gold already. You would think they are coming back with improvements. I'm sorry to say they regressed.

    I don't know that they've regressed. They're under a new coach and new choreographers and it's the first competition of the season. I don't doubt for a second that they won't add more difficult content and fix the bugs and glitches in their current programs through Grand Prix season, Nationals and hopefully eventually Worlds. I feel like Dubreuil/Lauzon's style versus Marina Zoueva's style is like comparing an apple to banana. D/L's choreo in my mind focuses on the presentation, versus Marina's focus on tech first.

  12. #132
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    FOR HELP

    V/M's free dance is composed by three parts of music IMO:
    1st part: Pilgrims on a long journey by Coeur De Pirate
    2nd part: I DON'T KNOW
    3rd part: Latch by Sam Smith

    Is there anybody know the 2nd part of the music please? Thank you so much.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsSweetie View Post
    I don't know that they've regressed. They're under a new coach and new choreographers and it's the first competition of the season. I don't doubt for a second that they won't add more difficult content and fix the bugs and glitches in their current programs through Grand Prix season, Nationals and hopefully eventually Worlds. I feel like Dubreuil/Lauzon's style versus Marina Zoueva's style is like comparing an apple to banana. D/L's choreo in my mind focuses on the presentation, versus Marina's focus on tech first.
    It pains to me say that but Zoueva, at least added different lifts every year. Now V/M does same lifts and same poses we have seen from other teams already 1000 times. I really believe they regressed.

    For me they just go Zoueva to another Zoueva. At least original Zoueva always added higlighing moves in dance.

  14. #134
    Royal Chinet 👑🍽️ Mango's Avatar
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    So then elif the problem is not Virtue/Moir, but Wilson, Dubreuil, Lauzon, and Haguenauer. If you can't come up with something special, that is not on the skaters, it's on the choreographers and coaches. They executed what their team came up with, almost scoring level 4s across the board, but you are not a fan of the material. Tessa and Scott can't do anything about it this season if you think that's the case. Maybe you'll like their programs next season. They certainly can't change coaches. There are no other elite coaches they can go to in North America, nor would they want to considering their decade long friendship with Dubreuil and Lauzon.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mango View Post
    So then elif the problem is not Virtue/Moir, but Wilson, Dubreuil, Lauzon, and Haguenauer. If you can't come up with something special, that is not on the skaters, it's on the choreographers and coaches. They executed what their team came up with, almost scoring level 4s across the board, but you are not a fan of the material. Tessa and Scott can't do anything about it this season if you think that's the case. Maybe you'll like their programs next season. They certainly can't change coaches. There are no other elite coaches they can go to in North America, nor would they want to considering their decade long friendship with Dubreuil and Lauzon.
    Don't forget David Wilson, he apparently was a part of the FD. And we all know he has no clue what he's doing when it comes to choreo.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsSweetie View Post
    Don't forget David Wilson, he apparently was a part of the FD. And we all know he has no clue what he's doing when it comes to choreo.
    Yes, I mentioned him. First fellow in the list.

    I am not a big fan of the open skating either, but this is the direction their team is taking them in. That team has the pulse on what the judges like seeing. If the judges don't like Tessa & Scott's style of skating then they won't win any major championships. But they can't control that. They can only do their best with the material their team has come up with. Get as many level 4s as possible. At the end of the day, the GOEs and PCS will tell the tale of which team the judges chose. It was like that in Sochi and it'll continue to be like this in ice dance where everything is by levels.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mango View Post
    Yes, I mentioned him. First fellow in the list.
    Duh. I don't know why when I saw Wilson, my first thought was Tracy Wilson... it's been that kind of week! Is it too early to start drinking? It is Friday...

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsSweetie View Post
    Duh. I don't know why when I saw Wilson, my first thought was Tracy Wilson... it's been that kind of week! Is it too early to start drinking? It is Friday...
    I should have mentioned David's name. In my mind Tessa & Scott are Montrealers, and Tracy Wilson is a Torontonian firmly entrenched at The Cricket. David floats in between.

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